I have had the unpleasant experience of finding a rat feeding from my
birdfeede r. This is the second home where I've had this problem. In
contacting the county health department, I have been told that birdfeeders
are the most important food source for rats in our county. The
recommendation of the county is to get rid of the feeder and poison the
rats. Of course poisoned grain in the same location a birds have been
coming to feed is not a sound solution. Also, I'm reluctant to forego the
pleasure I get from the birds.

I tempted to get a ferel cat! Just kidding. Seriously Have any of you had
this problem? How have you solved it? Note rabies is a real problem in
our area, and two young children so living in harmony with the rats is not
in the solution set.

thank you in advance,

Skip Hyberg
Montgomery County, MD

================

From: Kay Loughman <KHLRF at UCCMVSA.UCOP.EDU>

Several years ago we saw a few rats near our home and contacted
local authorities. The first question they asked was did we feed
birds! We replied yes, from a feeder suspended 25 ft above the
ground, and that the rats were not coming to the feeder. The guy
said feeders really do attract rats and suggested that we either
stop feeding birds or at least switch to a low-waste seed. We
started buying sunflower chips instead of whole black oil seed,
and found that much less presumably edible waste made it to the
ground. The same person asked if we, or our neighbors, were using
ivy as a ground cover and, again, we answered in the affirmative.
He said that rats abound in suburban areas with lots of ivy --
they live under it, and can travel comfortably without being seen.
The suggestion was to radically thin, or remove the ivy. We
thinned ours, but couldn't do anything about the vegetation in our
neighbors' yards. A major fire ultimately took care of the ivy
(and everything else) and we haven't seen rats since. So, I don't
know whether changing feed or vegetation actually would have
solved the problem. Good luck!

Kay Loughman, Berkeley, CA

==========================

From: Thomas Grey <tgrey at LELAND.STANFORD.EDU>

I haven't had rats (yet), but have solved the much-discussed squirrel
problem by having a standing feeder with a baffle on the pole and a
plastic hood hanging above it from a tree. The squirrels can't (or haven't
yet figured out how to) jump in sideways. This should keep rats out of the
actual feeder.

Might not completely solve the problem though if rats are attracted by
spillage on the ground, of which we have plenty (using black oil
sunflower seeds).

* * * * * * * * * *
Thomas C. Grey tgrey at leland.stanford.edu
Stanford Law School Stanford, CA

=======================

From: HILTONB at CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU
Subject: Caution with Rats

I've been following this thread about rats at birdfeeders and some of the
comments cause me real concern. It's difficult to tell from the postings
whether Chatters who are beseiged by rodents are city or country dwellers,
but I assume there's a mix. If that's the case, I'm wondering whether the
rats in question are native or non-native species.

I've been feeding birds here at Hilton pond in the South Carolina Piedmont
for 13 years. I live in a semi-rural area and have a steady population of
rats that dine on spillage beneath the feeders. With two exceptions in 13
years, those rats have all been native Hispid Cotton rats (Sigmodon
hispidus); the two exceptions were Norway rats (Rattus norvegicus) that, as
the name implies, are definitely non-native.

Cotton rats are innocuous rodents that eat economically important insects
as well as plant matter. Norway rats are aggressive and seem to get into
everything; the two I live-trapped here were about the size of small
elephants and had teeth about two-inches long. (Whoops, I must be hung over
from too much trick-or-treating!). Seriously, the Norway rats WERE indeed
hefty and, when trapped, acted as if they would give a feral cat a ru7n for
hi8s money.

My point is this. Before we go off poisoning and killing rats at our
feeders, let's make sure we know what we have. I'm strongly opposed to
using any poison in this situation because it would absolutely non-
selective, and any number of creatures could die. A much better alternative
is live-trapping. A live-trapped rat can be examined and identified; if
it's a Cotton rat and I were overwhelmed by too many of them, I would
transport them to a nearby area that could use a few more Cotton rats. (
Although one must also be careful about this action.) If it's a Norway rat
or a Black rat, I would probably dispatch it humanely and feed it to my
nine-foot Boa Constrictor that I use as a teaching tool in my science
education consulting work.

Just food for thought. (Can't wait to see where the thread goes next . . .
)

Happy Birding!


BILL HILTON JR.
"The Piedmont Naturalist"
Hilton Pond
1432 DeVinney Road
York, South Carolina 29745
(803)684-0255
hiltonb at ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu

====================

From: Les Eastman <lreastma at cbda9.apgea.army.mil>

I second Bill Hilton's concern about dispatching rats
indiscriminately. I have had a rat at my feeders for the last two
winters. Other than digging a few tunnels in the mulch and eating a
little bird seed, it doesn't seem to be doing any harm. It
disappears in the spring and hasn't shown up yet this year. I haven't
definitely identified what species it is (I don't have a field guide
to rats) but it doesn't appear to be the vermin kind. Live and let
live. (Just don't tell my wife there is a rat in our yard.)

>From Les Eastman - Aberdeen Proving Ground, Maryland
lreastma at apgea.army.mil

============

From: Steve Konings <skonings at POST.ITS.MCW.EDU>

I understand this can be a good way to *attract* owls! As the mice and
rats come to feed on the spilt seed, the owls come to hunt the rodents.
In fact, I heard that watching feeders in the evening was one explanation
for the increase in screech owls in one area's Christmas bird count over
the past few years.

Anyone else experience this?

Steve skonings at post.its.mcw.edu
Milw WI - A Great Place On A Great Lake
I Alone Am Responsible For Me

===========================

From: STEVEM at POMAD.CLAREMONT.EDU
Subject: Re: rats AND possums

>From what I have heard possums (though they look like a rat on a BAD
batch of steroids) are good to have around because they eat various sorts
of vermin like insects. They especialy like mice and rats. We have a
metal roof on our patio and have been woken up more than once by a possum
and a rat fighting over the possum's dinner plans. We keep birdseed and
rabbit food in the garage and the possums have never gotten into, to the
best of my knowledge.

Steve
!
! Dr. Stephan L. Moss stevem at pomadm.claremont.edu
!
! Administrative Computing Pomona College
! Claremont, CA 91711
! (909) 621-8000 ext. 1734

=======================

From: David Haines <dhaines at ABACUS.BATES.EDU>
Subject: Mice as Owl Food (was Caution with Rats)

Several years ago Pat Ledlie called me from her kitchen to say
that a GREAT GREY OWL had just flown in and caught a mouse
in front of her eyes below the feeder! The owl, of course,
was never seen again....

david c. haines
mathematics
bates college
lewiston, maine
dhaines at abacus.bates.edu