In message <9502090023.AA09903 at mx4.u.washington.edu> writes:
> >I am looking for information regarding hybridization of finches. In
> >particular:
> >Cassin's Finch (Carpodacus cassinnii) and Purple Finch (Carpodacus
> purpureus).
> >We have banded hundreds of these species at our home in Leavenworth, WA and
> >have
> >found several individuals that exhibit characteristics half-way between the
> >two.
> >These two species are morphologically similar, but some individuals are
> >virtually impossible to tell apart in the hand, let alone while in the
> field.
> >Has anyone noticed this potential for hybridization before? I would be
> >interested in looking at banding data from others who have banded large
> >numbers
> >of these finches, escpecially in Eastern Washington where we have a overlap
> of
> >these two species. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
> >
> >Roger Peffer- rpeffer at ctc.edu
>
> Roger, what kind of evidence do you have for this? Photos? Measurements?
> Hopefully both? I'd be very interested in learning more about this. The
> only hybrids mentioned for this family in the primary reference on North
> American bird hybrids (Cockrum, E. L. 1952. A check-list and bibliography
> of hybrid birds in North America north of Mexico. Wilson Bull. 64:
> 140-159) are between Common and Hoary redpolls, Common Redpoll and Pine
> Siskin, and Pine Grosbeak and Purple Finch (!!!!). A Red Crossbill x Pine
> Siskin hybrid was collected in North Dakota and reported by Dan Tallman
> some years ago. There may well be others in Eurasia. No Purple X
> Cassin's, which presumably would be somewhat difficult to detect, and it
> will be exciting if you can document such birds. Do you capture them
> regularly enough so that someone might be able to take a blood sample?
>
> Tom Hahn, a friend of mine, is writing the Birds of North America account
> on the Cassin's Finch, and I imagine he'd be interested too.
>
> Dennis Paulson phone: (206)
> 756-3798
> Slater Museum of Natural History fax: (206) 756-3352
> University of Puget Sound e-mail: dpaulson at ups.edu
> Tacoma, WA 98416
>
Dennis:
My wife and I have been banding at our home for the last 4 years with Dr. Dan
Stephens (also at Wenatchee Valley College). We have complete measurements and
some photo documentation. Although Cassin's are more prevalent at our site, we
also get large numbers of purples. They appear to be sympatric populations. (We
also get an assortment of other species and observe some interesting behaviors.
Two years ago had an erruptive influx of red crossbills and siskins- Banded over
300 of each.) The Cassin's are of course slightly larger and the red cap tends
to be more definitive than in the purples. Cassin's also are more darkly
streaked on the breast and have streaked under-tail coverts. Purples are not
"supposed" to be streaked on the under-tail coverts. We take all the
measurements on a standard MAPS banding data sheet with additional notes. Some
bird (hybrids?) measurements fall on the line between both species and are
lightly streaked on the under-tail. Usually I can tell the difference just by
their size in my hand, but some birds are very difficult to ID. Our banding
site is on our property just off Hwy 97, about 15 minutes north of Blewett/Swauk
Pass- the Ingalls Creek area. (About 3 minutes from the Camas Meadows Road.) We
have a natural mineral lick in our yard that tends to draw a lot of birds. We
contacted Tom Hahn about 6 months ago and discussed this issue and shared some
of our banding data. I know he did some banding in the Blewett/Swauk area. We
do capture them quite regularly during the spring and summer months and could
readily take blood samples... we would be very interested in doing a DNA
analysis however, we do not have the equipment or expertise in that area. Any
ideas?

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Roger Peffer- rpeffer at ctc.edu / 509-662-1651 X2017
Wenatchee Valley College /
Biology/Chemistry Departments / I have met the enemy,
1300 Fifth St. / and they is us...
Wenatchee, WA 98826 / Pogo
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