A comment on Gene Hunn's statement:

(snip) Mexican Indian societies pre-Conquest achieved very high
>densities but the worst environmental deterioration in Mexico seem
>attributable to colonial and post-colonial land use patterns, driven by
>external demand. My point is that it's not simply density but the nature
>of the system: is it oriented toward competing in a global market or is
>it more locally or regionally contained.
(snip)

I do not claim to be an expert on this, Mesoamerican archaeology was merely
my minor at University of Texas back in the '60's, even before we could read
Mayan writing. But correct me if I'm wrong--I thought there was a fair amount
of evidence of severe environmental degradation in the large Maya
civilization centers. Don Rice, in "Eighth-Century Physical Geography,
Environment, and Natural Resources in the Maya Lowlands" (Dunbarton Oaks
symposium of October 7 & 8, 1989) describes the results of pollen sampling
from lake bottoms and seems to say that in the Peten and around Copan there
was practically complete deforestation by the eighth century. He notes clear
evidence of severe soil erosion into the lakes. He compares the samples from
areas not so populated and found them to be quite different. When you talk
about religion and its effect on the environment of such agricultural
societies, remember that the temples were plaster covered, and plaster
requires the burning of a lot of wood. Also the area was subject to highly
intensive swidden agriculture. Of course, the Maya were also good at making
efficient use of the land, and we know that they relied on crop rotation,
crop terracing, and such practices. In any case, I know there is some
evidence from burials at Copan that the people were suffering from
environmental stress-- here is a quote, referring to an analysis of 149
burials:

"Whittington's conclusion is that the Copanec population was highly stressed
and unhealthy during the periods leading up to the political collapse of the
center. During the eighth century AD, when the population growth rate reached
its maximun and population size approached its peak, high incidence of
hypoplasia shows that childhood stess was greater than during preceding
phases. Frequencies of anemia and subadult caries were higher than at any
other time. Infection is thought to have increased significantly in response
to rising population desnity, and poor diet is implicated in producing a high
frequency of iron-deficiency anemia and enamel hypoplsia through its
synergistic relationship with infectious diseases and parasites. Preliminary
analyses by Storey of center, or elite, burial population from Copan during
the same period offer similar results. Nutritional stress does not appear to
have affected the center and rural populations differentially."

The author does point out that there are not enough samples to be conclusive.
I don't suppose any of this really refutes Gene's statement-- it could be
that it got even worse after Europeans arrived, and in central Mexico of
course the environmental degradation is plenty bad now-- but I think it is
quite possible that a dense human population is a problem even without a
global market-- but maybe I know just enough of this to be dangerous.
-------------------------------------
Name: Jerry Broadus
jbroadus at seanet.com
901-16th. St S.W.
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Time: 20:18:56