Dennis wrote:

> There can be great benefits (we have a good example
> right here, of quite a few people contributing information about bushtit
> suet use that might tell us something more about this phenomenon) and
> substantial costs (as when volunteers go out to census birds but don't know
> the songs of 10% or 20% or 30% or an even higher percentage of those
> species in the area, thus in this scenario directly contributing to the
> belief that bird populations are down).

There is a HUGE need for more amateur involvement in lots of areas and in
some cases amateurs can lead the way for professionals. An amazing amount of
extremely valuable data can be gathered by amateurs but there are several
barriers / impediments to this:

1) Professionals don't nurture and encourage the interest that amateurs have
in getting involved in research. I was surprised when I first arrived in the
US to see how little reliance professionals have on amateur birders. In the UK
several programmes carried out by organisations, exist almost exclusively on
the data gathered by amateurs.

2) Birding culture focuses on listing species rather than counting them. The
most important effect of this is that people are not used to collecting data.
Simply noting species, number, time and location adds a lot of knowledge on
the birds of a particular area.

3) Lack of initiative. The major research programs are driven by
professionals and as a result the myth exists that only professionals carry
out research. Amateurs can organise themselves and contribute on a local
level. The reaction of some birders (profesional and amateurs) when I talked
about working on sanderling was: Which university are you working with ? Where
will you get the grant money ? etc.

4) Lack of organisation. There are no intermediate organisations pushing
local birders to record more data and get involvwed in loca lresearch. My
opinion is the Washington Ornithological Society is more of a bird club than
anything else. This is meant as an observation rather than a criticism - while
having only been here for a year that impression may be wrong.

Eh, I'll stop there before I get into more hot water ;-)

Anyway the scope for amateurs is enormous if they are dedicated, focussed,
aware of their limitations and willing to put in the time to do a good job.
You don't need to be paid to do good science - just look at all the amateurs
who started ornithology, chemistry, astronomy etc, etc, etc.

This thread always seems to die out quickly and resurrect itself every few
months. Its obvious there are some frustrated ornithologists out there, it's
time to stimulate debate and get something done !!!!!

Stuart - amateur sanderling researcher
--
Stuart MacKay, Ravenna Ave NE, Seattle, WA 98105