Don wrote:

> Stuart - I think you underestimate the level of amateur
> contributions to ornithological research in the US, though I agree
> it takes a different form than in the UK (more likely to be
> contributing as a volunteer for some agency, university researcher,
> conservation organization, or organization with some specific
> research goals like Hawkwatch).

A lot of important ornithology was carried out by egg collectors - particularly in Scotland where the 'bored middle-class English country gentleman' stereotype is not very applicable, if at all.

> Part may be due to heritage.

Quite possibly, the important point to note is the precedent was set by these early pioneers. Amateurs can and do contribute. A good parallel example is astronomy. Large chunks of knowledge are generated by amateurs whose rigor and attention to detail sometimes exceeds that of the professionals.

In my opinion there is nothing stopping amateur involvement although with no professional support structure it is more difficult here in the US rather than the UK. That where organisations like the Washington Ornithological Society have a role to play. Even if it's as simple as organising the BBS or CBC count each year. The society becomes a focus point, for involvement, discussion, training, action, etc, etc.

> I think it can be argued that even today, the contributions of
> science and technology to society is greatly undervalued in the UK
> this is reflected in good part to the salaries one can expect (and
> here I speak of such areas as computing, as well).

Why do you think I am here ;-)

Potentially flammable material follows:

For a nation so proud if it's promotion of the individual, there is a disturbing reliance on government or offical organisations. This is not a political observation rather it seems that unless people are
paid to do a job then they are not qualified to do surveys / research / etc. Perhaps its a turf war. Lots of willing amateurs means few low paid professionals - precisely the reason I decide not to enter
professional ornithology when I was in high school.

A lot of this has to do with the lamentable state of birding - a total focus on species lists, rather than collecting data to contributre on an area's avifauna.

Anyway I'm wandering a bit. More can and should be done.

Stuart