On Mon, 30 Dec 1996, Mary Poss wrote:

> In response to Jack's question
> > Orioles have rather long graduated tails unlike the birds you described.
> How big were they in relation to a robin? Could they have been winter-
> plumaged goldfinches?
>
> This was the other consideration that I had, but the beaks on these birds
> were dark and not finch-like. they were smaller than a robin and more
> slender, about the size of a tanager. Do winter plummage goldfinches have
> yellow hoods no black caps and broad white wing bars?
> Mary Poss
> Dept Microbiology
> UWA

Yes, in fact that last sentence IS a pretty good, if approximate,
description of some winter goldfinches. I wouldn't describe them
as having a yellow hood, but they do have a fair bit of yellowish
cast to the face and neck etc. Looking at an illustration in my National
Geographic guide, I see a broad white wingbar, yellow head, face, and
throat, with buffy lower breast and flanks that could be described as
coppery, as in your original description. Note also that goldfinches
beaks are dusky in the winter, and are not so stout as to instantly say
"finch" (as compared with a purple finch bill, for instance).

That the birds you saw were flocking, had notched tails, (and did you say
they were feeding on catkins, or was that another thread?), strongly
suggests that the birds were finches of some kind. Your original
description made me think a little of pine grosbeaks, but mostly of
goldfinches.

Your puzzlement at these birds made me think of two things - first, how
different all the local birds suddenly look when they're lit from below
light reflected from snow (GW gulls overhead are suddenly ethereal and
strikingly patterned), and second, of the several times in winter when I
have happened on a flock of goldfinches high in a tree and been totally
stumped for at first glance, thinking "these look totally unlike anything
I've seen in my life."

Chris Hill
Everett, WA
cehill at u.washington.edu