>Scott,
>
>I had a look at the Red-shouldered Hawk photo, but don't have reference
>books handy. The bird certainly doesn't have the feel of a Red-tail.
>The pale face in the dark head seems very unlike a Red-tail and the
>picture that shows the upper surface of the tail relatively clearly sure
>looks more like a Red-shouldered than anything else that comes to mind.
>The head and bill of the first photo seem quite dainty, also, and the
>tail extends well beyond the folded wingtips. The best back shot seems
>to indicate there's a lot of rufous on the shoulder and tertials, but can
>I trust my monitor's color? It is still puzzling why it didn't appear
>obviously smaller and longer-tailed in flight re. a Red-tail. In my
>experience the gestalts are very different in flight.
>
>Gene Hunn

Well, I just went and had me a look-see at the photos. Beautiful Brown
Thrasher!

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you, Gene, on the hawk. My statement
would have been "The bird certainly *does* have the feel (or look) of a
Red-tail." When it finally built itself up on the screen, my first
response was "now, what makes that not a Red-tail?" I could come up with
not a single suggestion to myself.

I don't think the tail is long enough for a Red-shoulder. The wingtip/tail
ratio looks like Red-tail rather than Red-shoulder to me, too; relatively
longer wings and/or shorter tail in Red-tail. And it *does* have a white
tail tip, as do most immature Red-tails *and* Red-shoulders. Don't I
remember the early description claiming the lack of white on the tail tip
as diagnostic of Red-shoulder? And, probably most importantly, the tail
banding is exactly that of an immature Red-tail; the dark bars are a bit
narrower than the pale ones. Note that immature California Red-shoulders
have just the opposite.

I compared a female Red-shoulder with a male Red-tail in the hand and could
see no difference at all in relative bill size or bill proportions. I
don't think this is a field mark.

The pale, dark-edged, face pattern is exactly duplicated by immature
Red-tail skins in our collection, as are the patterns both above and below.
The darkest immatures look pretty much like the bird in the photos. From
what I can read, imm. California Red-shoulders should have their barring
*heaviest* on the breast, with no indication of a pale area there. And I
don't see the shoulder area as rufous on my monitor, nor did anyone
describe rufous in that area.

Gary Shugart and Molly Hukari, looking at the photos and the skins with me,
agreed that the bird looks like a Red-tail.

The bird in the photo shows no characteristic that convinces me it's a
Red-shoulder rather than a Red-tail.

Where are all the raptor experts when we need them? I admit I have a
distinct advantage in being able to walk out my office door, open up a
couple of museum cases, and have the raw material at hand to allow me some
understanding of the plumages of these birds. It's very important to
remember that the artists who drew them in the field guides usually chose
*a single bird* to illustrate, and by no means is that bird indicative of
all the variation.

Dennis Paulson phone: (206) 756-3798
Slater Museum of Natural History fax: (206) 756-3352
University of Puget Sound e-mail: dpaulson at ups.edu
Tacoma, WA 98416