At 03:08 PM 2/22/98 -0900, Andrew & Rebecca Sorensen wrote:
>Don Baccus wrote:
>
>>Speculation is useless. You trust his experience, fine. However, you're
>>>arguing that you also trust his INEXPERIENCE - in this case, his
>>inexperience >with any actual use of pepper spray on grizzly bears.

>His experience with pepper spray, along with my own and others suggests to
>me that a consistent spray is less than reliable. Therefore, I don't trust
>pepper spray as my line of defense in a grizzly attack. Weather conditions
>also play a major role - wind can significantly impact the use of sprays.

>Do you have a brand of pepper spray you find reliable? I would like to
>know of it if you do. I'm always open for new information.

As with many people, the issues a bit moot because I don't have the kind
of firearms training (nor the firearms) offered by agencies, as described
by another poster. I do know everything I've seen has said "test to make
sure it works right" (pepper spray), but this new information regarding
the apparent love of grizzly for the smell and taste may change that.

>There is a lot of advice out there concerning how to properly handle a bear
>encounter. However, even the experts disagree in many ways. It doesn't
>take much reading from different sources to see this. Speculation is
>really all there is to go on when considering the use of pepper spray on an
>all-out-to-get-you grizzly bear charge or the freak attack by a predaceous
>black bear. No studies, that I know of, have proven it to be effective in
>either case - it should have some effect but no one really knows.

Use of firearms - even by experienced folks - is less than 100% effective,
too. Herrero documents a surprising percentage of maulings and deaths
on armed folks. This is especially true when there's enough cover for
the bear to arrive by scent, but invisible to you. That last minute
crashing of branches doesn't give much warning. And a 12-guage shotgun
with solid round, or 30-06, is kinda unwieldly in brush. Despite your
praise of .44 handgun usuage in relation to an outdoor writer who saved
himself using one, I think most, if not all, bear experts would be very
lax to prescribe this as an adequate weapon.

None of these tools is going to be near 100% effective.

> Rogers
>points out in his book that he has never seen a hungry bear that he
>couldn't get rid of with a squirt of capsiacin - however, he also states
>that to date, no one has tested it on a highly motivated or predaceous
>bear.

Nearly all records of griz predation occur at night, usually in tents.
The preferred griz weapon - rifle or 12 gauge with slug - is unwieldy
in tents. And unwieldly when you're being munched.

>Anyone want to be first in line?

Do you want to experiment with using a firearm under similar circumstances?

I doubt it - a "yes" answer would be pretty crazy.

So, no, I don't want to perform such experiments with pepper spray or
ANY weapon.

I've said all along that weapons work very well when a well-trained person
is wielding them. The numbers of hunters who form a big piece of the pie
chart of griz attack fatalities makes it clear than simple recreational
use of weapons doesn't necessarily impart the skills needed to stop a
griz charging at 35 mph. Herrero thinks a hunter in that situation tends
to try for a kill shot, rather than the chest shot intended to break a
clavicle - which is why he devoted a subchapter to effective firearm
use against charging grizzly bears. He was hoping, obviously, that
hunters and others who routinely carry firearms in such country will
read and learn.

So - pepper spray may fail against a motivated, charging bear. We have
documented evidence of attacks where use of firearms, even heavy firearms,
have failed. Does this make weapons worse than, the same as, or better
than, pepper spray in such a scenario?

Given a choice, it makes sense to do what Herrero does when in country
where a known, dangerous grizzly is (such as the one that killed two
fishermen near Banff). Don't pack a gun - pack a well-trained Mountie
on horseback!


- Don Baccus, Portland OR <dhogaza at pacifier.com>
Nature photos, on-line guides, and other goodies at
http://donb.photo.net