In a message dated 98-01-15 22:07:12 EST, you write:

<< << ...If anyone else needs the outline [Gene Hunn's THAYER'S GULL wisdom],
contact me off TWEETERS and I will send them electronically. >>

Hi Bob -- I guess I don't know anything about this. I would certainly like
to see and have a copy. Chances are that there might be several Tweetsters
who might be requesting it, so rather than posting to each of us individually,
perhaps to save yourself some time, you could re-post it on TWEETERS. It's up
to you, however you prefer. Muchos gracias! :-)) --Richard

Richard Rowlett (Pagodroma at aol.com)
>>

That was a couple of months ago that I sent that. I don't know how a
current message got sent recently. Something I did must have pulled it out of
the archives or, as Ruth Sullivan says, 'out of the garbage". Not that Gene's
outline is in the garbage. It is carefully saved.
On the subject of gulls. My wife from my hint gave me the Large Gulls
video by Jon Dunne. It is an excellent 2 hour presentation. A lot to digest
but it covers very nicely the matter of looking at the underside of the
primaries on a nonflying bird. Of course he can freeze the video at just the
right time and actual birds tend to keep moving. The THAYER'S GULL treatment
is excellent!

So here are Gene's two posts:

>>Gene Hunn, Seattle, hunnhome at accessone.com

My id routine is roughly as follows, assuming, of course, an adult:

Pink legs? Yes. That rules out California, Ring-billed, Mew, etc., not to
mention Lesser Black-backed.

Mantle as pale or paler than all the hulking Glaucous-wings, Westerns, and
their hybrid spawn? Yes. Also rules out Slaty-backed, etc. Go on.

Wing with sharply contrasting black tips? Yes. Rules out Glaucous-wings and
Glaucous-winged X Western hybrids (the latter mostly have dark gray wing
tips, and not so sharply contrasting) again plus Iceland including Kumlien's
Iceland Gull, with wing tips of some shade of gray.

Eye not glaring pale yellow? Yes (that is, no, it's not glaring pale
yellow). Rules out Herring. The iris may vary from pale brown to rich yellow.

Head more round and bill less heavy than the other pink-footed gulls? Yes.
Rules out Herring, etc. again. Now you're beginning to feel confident about
it.

Finally, check to see if the black on the wing tip is limited, that is, less
extensive and more interrupted by white "windows" than is normally the case
with Herring and Ring-billed Gulls (which have mantles as pale or slightly
paler than Thayer's) and that from the underside the primaries look pale
gray, not blackish (as in Herring Gulls). You can see this best in flight
but it is also noticeable when the bird is standing or sitting as you can
see the top of the wing and front and the underside of the tip of the wing
in back, which should appear pale.

If the legs are a deeper pink than the other pink-footed gulls nearby, fine,
but I wouldn't rely too heavily on that mark.

Not infrequently, however, I find a bird that otherwise fits Thayer's Gull
but that has a paler eye, more like a Herring Gull, or that has dark gray
rather than black on the wing tips, more like a Kumlien's Iceland Gull. In
such cases I shrug my shoulders. By the way, I saw one like the latter at
Green Lake last Sunday. It could have been a dark Kumlien's, but hey....

If the bird is a first year bird... [save that for another thread].

Gene Hunn.


In reply to Bob Norton's question

It's usually pretty easy to see as the wingtips project (sometimes sort of
partly sideways) and cross each other above the tail at the rear of the
bird. Of course, the underside is usually a bit shadowed so may appear
darker than it really is. I've also been able to pick out sitting Little
Gulls from Bonaparte's this way, as the blackish underwing of the Little
Gull shows up quite conspicuously.

On immature Thayer's Gulls: My impression is that they are relatively far
less common up here than are adults, but that the situation is reversed in
California (typically immatures winter further from the breeding grounds,
probably because they can't compete with the adults for the better
habitats). So I don't see that many. It's much more a matter of judging size
and shape and color, all of which are matters of degree and best seen with
direct comparisons with known birds of other species (or accompanying
adults). So look for a brownish gull with pinkish-flesh feet (which most 1st
years gulls have, even those that have yellow feet as adults), duller than
adults. The bill should be all dark (unlike first year California Gulls and
Glaucous Gulls, which are two-toned) and the eye also. Size noticeably
smaller than Glaucous-winged types and somewhat smaller than any Herring
Gulls that might be around (on average), but larger than a Ring-billed or
Mew (size of California Gull but not as "long"), with relatively slight bill
and rounded head relative to Herring, Glaucous-winged, Western, or hybrids
among those species. The coloration is paler than Western or Herring (which
tend to dark browns and blackish primaries), more or less Glaucous-winged
shade but in my recollection more tan than grayish. The primaries should be
more or less the same tone as the body feathering and, if the plumage is
fresh, the primaries will be neatly margined by whitish buff (and the
coverts also neatly patterned). In flight the secondaries and tail are
darker than the body. A Kumlien's Iceland Gull should show distinctly
whitish primaries (but beware of the effects of wear late in the winter or
in early spring) and tend to have an even daintier bill. There are still a
percentage that don't pan out.

Gene Hunn.<<

I might also say that on Ediz Hook the last two times that I have studied
THAYER'S, apparent first years outnumbered adults 20 to one. That is not true
at the Elwha where the reverse is true. These were quite dark, not
checkerboarded so I could be misidentifying them but they had the right bill
shape and general size and all black bills. Both times they were in a fairly
small group. Gulls seem clannish around here. They mix freely only in the
bedroom!
Bob Norton
Joyce, WA (near Port Angeles)
norton360 at aol.com