Subject: Re: Feedback Requested
Date: Jan 17 12:53:25 1998
From: "John Chandler" - chandler at uniserve.com


Tweets,

I had wanted to post this earlier this week but haven't had the time to get
to it.

Firstly, let talk about:

On Mon, 12 Jan 1998 Michael Price wrote:

>who is the RBA for

A very interesting question. I believe the sponsoring organization
certainly has an interest because the sightings data is a key part of the
ongoing accumulation of knowledge about birds seen in that area. Local
birders are the most frequent users of an RBA and the taped message should
therefore serve their needs first.

>I'd suggest that the compilers take more time to provide as detailed
>directions as possible.

I disagree. Local birders know where Sea Island and the Dinsmore Bridge
are. If they don't, they can easily consult a map or call the RBA
operator. As a local, I certainly do not want to have to endure detailed
directions on how to get to Blackie Spit when I phone in to listen to the
tape.

If an out-of-town birder has to spend a few dollars on long distance calls
to get detailed directions, I doubt they would be concerned. They are
likely to spend significantly more than that on travel etc. My experience
has been that when out-of-town birders call they want more than just
directions to a location. They often have more general questions about the
area or the likelihood of seeing other local birds that are not on the
tape. Also, the number of calls per month is very low (1 2) so we are
talking about the needs of a very small group.

All of this is of course talking about the normal situation. When
something like the Xantus' Hummingbird occurs then I agree we need to make
directions more readily available.

Incidentally, the owner of the house that has the Western Tanager coming to
a feeder on a regular basis has asked that we publish a phone number but no
address as he does not want people arriving unannounced. The Xantus'
Hummingbird folks agreed to let us know when the bird is not seen on a
daily basis. So no news is good news.

>How is someone unfamiliar with the Greater Vancouver BC area to locate
>any one these birds? By calling one of the people whose numbers are given
>at the end of the transcript? This means the VNHS through it Bird Alert is

>using the Internet to tell people they need to phone someone

Ah, excuse me. Email? If you can read Tweeters, you have email. Email the
originator for details. Already people are doing this.

Michael comments:
>resisting attempted browbeating by an aggressive hardcore lister over
>an doubtful sighting is not for the faint of heart

Sounds like an unofficial Bird Records Committee.

>a number of people have complained to me privately about snotty
>brushoffs of the 'You can't *possibly* have seen that' type when
>they've called your RBA to contribute sightings of rarities.

This comment is interesting as I have heard exactly this said about you
when you were the operator of the alert. It is certainly not my intention
to offend or intimidate birders who call in sightings. If the caller is
confident about the sighting, I accept it at face value.

>From the replies to my request for feedback, it looks as if local and
out-of-town birders both use the transcript posted on Tweeters. I think
the taped message and the transcript posted to the Internet have different
goals. What is the objective of the Internet document? I'm not sure.

Next let's talk about the Vancouver RBA

The VNHS RBA is operated by five volunteers (and we're always looking for
more) on a monthly rotation. While this may be "world-unprecedented" (so
we're pioneers!) there are many benefits.

Providing daily updates for an RBA is a time-consuming, deadline-oriented
task. It's not too bad at this time of year but a fallout of migrants in
the Spring can be brutal. From my perspective, the rotation is great
because I have a life four months out of five. As you know, Michael, the
VNHS has had some difficulty in the past with the single operator model
when it came to ownership of sightings data. So the benefit to the VNHS of
the rotation is a significantly reduced risk in this area.

As an RBA operator my objective is to do the best I can with the resources
I have. My most precious resource in this case is time. Many of the
things you suggest as possible improvements (proactively phoning local
birders, reworking the tape transcript for the Internet, etc.) require
time. Even if I agreed it was right to do all these things, which I don't,
I wouldn't have the time.

If the Southern California RBA operator has the resources and inclination
to do daily updates and post a lengthy document to the Internet, I think
that's fabulous. More power to him/her. Do I feel that I have to compete
and do the same. No, definitely not. I do the best I can with what I've
got. I'm not saying I don't care and don't want to provide good service to
RBA users, I'm saying I don't have time to do these things. I do the best
I can with the resources I have available
...
I believe you can always do better and I am always open to suggestions on
how the Vancouver RBA can be improved, as long as comments constructive.

In the big picture, I think the Vancouver RBA does quite well. We update
daily and post to the Internet some of the time (some of the operators in
the rotation do not have access to the Internet).

And lastly:

>Actually, John, there is one more 'finally', a personal one. Over two
>years later, I will admit to still having strong feelings of pain, anger
>and betrayal.

You have made your feelings about the VHNS abundantly clear in numerous
previous posts. If you have an issue with the VNHS Executive or Birding
Committee, then take it up with them. The RBA operators, VNHS membership
and BC birding community were not involved in events that happened over two
years ago, yet you continue to be very critical and negative about these
groups at every opportunity.

To be honest, the main reason for my post asking for feedback on the
Vancouver RBA was because I am fed up with your continued snide comments,
cheap shots and unwarranted public and private flames. To quote Peter Finch
in the movie Network " I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take this
anymore". If there wasn't much interest in the RBA posts, I was going to
stop doing them.

As I see it, Michael, you have two options. You can either deal with the
problem, let go and move on or you can simmer in it for awhile longer. I
don't care which of these you choose, and, from some of the recent posts, I
would suggest most (all?) Tweeters don't care either. Just leave us out of
it. Stop inflicting your problems on us.

As for your objectivity on this matter, Michael, your VNHS-related posts
have made it clear that your feelings about the VNHS are so strong that you
can no longer be objective. If you think you are still being objective, I
suggest you are only fooling one person. Look at your post in response to
my request for feedback. Nothing but negativity and criticism except when
you pause to wax eloquent about the *fabulous* job you did as an operator.

In summary, Michael, stop using Tweeters to vent your feelings of pain,
anger and betrayal. The Vancouver RBA operators, VNHS membership and BC
birding community are not part of your problem so leave us alone. I don't
know how I can make this any clearer.

Incidentally, I am not going to get into a protracted public exchange over
this. I just want to get back to bird-related topics and lurking '-).

In closing, Tweets, I believe all of this would be much better resolved
privately. Yet, because of the on-going negativity from Michael on
Tweeters, I felt I should post publicly. Hopefully, I am not being nave
and this will be the end of it.

Regards,

John.