I applaud and second Jim's statements on this subject.

While Michael's use of the current ornithologically-correct lingo fits in
perfectly with the users of a scientifically oriented list, I don't think it
is a good fit with Tweeters. Many of the people subscribed to Tweeters are
beginning or inexperienced birders who are learning with nearly every post
they read. Why try to confuse people with difficult terminology? Just spit
it out in the easiest terms and get on with it. I personally have used
"breeding" and "non-breeding" or "winter" to describe plumages for so long I
don't feel compelled to attempt to change.

While I'm at it, I also object to inserting the scientific names of the
birds without putting them in brackets. "Osprey Pandion haliaetus" is more
confusing to read than "Osprey (Pandion haliaetus)".

Denny Granstrand
Yakima, WA
At 05:28 PM 7/5/98 -0700, you wrote:
>I'd like to introduce a twist on the issue of censorship, Michael, and
suggest that you may be loving your language not wisely but too well.
>
>I think that "breeding plumage" is far and away the best description for
the orange-and-black of the American Redstart. That is the purpose of the
plumage, after all: to help the male attract a mate, defend a territory, or
both, for the purpose of successful breeding.
>
>The fact that it is possible to breed in another plumage is immaterial.
Almost everybody knows what is meant by the term "basketball uniform," but I
venture to say that Gary Payton in khakis and a bomber jacket would clobber
me one-on-one, regardless of my attire. It is clearly possible to play
basketball in something other than a "basketball uniform," but there is
still no better term to apply to what the Sonics play their games in. I
shudder to think what the authors of "definitive alternate plumage" might
call it.
>
>Usage of terms like this seems to me to be a misguided attempt to remove
any possibility of ambiguity. "Definitive alternate plumage" is a rather
opaque expression, and there's not much point in sacrificing clarity for the
sake of clarity.
>
>People complain bitterly about the use of "legalese," but at least the
lawyers have good reasons for using it.
>
>I applaud efforts to get things right linguistically, but in the absence of
what I consider useful alternatives, I'm going to keep saying "breeding
plumage" when I mean "breeding plumage," and even "fall migration" when I
mean "summer-and-fall-generally-southward migration."
>
>Jim McCoy
>Redmond, WA
>jfmccoy at earthlink.net
>
>----------
>From: Michael Price[SMTP:mprice at mindlink.bc.ca]
>Reply To: mprice at mindlink.bc.ca
>Sent: Sunday, July 05, 1998 1:50 AM
>To: tweeters at u.washington.edu
>Subject: 1st Year Male Amer Redstarts (was: Am. Redstart in Idaho)
>
>Hi Tweets,
>
>Belatedly, a short comment: in terms of its plumage, male American Redstart
>Setophaga ruticilla is a two-year bird in that it doesn't acquire its
>black-and-orange Definitive Alternate plumage until its second Alternate
>molt, but has, as ably pointed out by others, an Alternate 1 plumage only
>slightly different from its Basic plumage.
>
>It's an old line but worth hauling out again: English is our Mother Tongue,
>and it's a cruel child which makes its mother cry.... '-)
>
>As the usual terminology has the second-year Def Alt plumage as the
>"official" 'Breeding' plumage and anything else the male wears as a
>'Non-breeding' plumage, and the Alt 1 male is --as a recent local nesting
>has shown-- fully capable of successful mating and parenting, we have the
>interesting phenomenon of a breeding bird in 'non-breeding' plumage--an
>avoidable semantic nonsense ranking up there with an Autumn Migration which
>begins before the Summer Solstice.
>
>Michael Price A brave world, Sir,
>Vancouver BC Canada full of religion, knavery, and change;
>mprice at mindlink.net we shall shortly see better days.
> Aphra Behn (1640-1689)
>
>
>
>
>
>
The Law of Gravity cannot be held
responsible for people falling in love.

Albert Einstein