Dennis Paulson wrote -

<snip>

>I believe this paragraph was written from a combination of ignorance and
>prejudice. Prejudice is basically the condemnation of a group because of
>certain objectionable actions of individuals belonging to that group or
>from ill-founded beliefs in some general attributes of the group. I can't
>imagine anyone viciously impugning women, or African Americans, or
>homosexuals on tweeters, but that is exactly what Jack Bowling has done
>with scientists. He has jumped all over science and scientists because of
>*one* person's action on *one* bird, read in a secondary source with no
>further information. This study, probably done 20 years ago (and perhaps
>not doable in today's climate, as Deb Beutler wrote), is held up as an
>example of the "unbridled hubris of the scientists involved."

Written from ignorance, yes, Dennis, (I did not know about the existing
guidelines) but not meant to malign all scientists. Only to question the
ethics of those biological researchers who would pursue such research
as described in my original post. So I apologize for the swipe at scientists
in general. It was ill-conceived. I have no prejudice against science or
scientists since as you mentioned, I swim in it every day. I guess I just cannot
bring myself to accept any research which would potentially harm another
animal, be it a bird or a fish. Call this hypocritical of anyone other than a
vegetarian if you like, but it is the way I feel.

<snip>

>Jack's disturbance at and objections to the possible death of a Clark's
>Nutcracker are entirely reasonable, but he then goes on to claim that
>experiments of this sort are conducted on the basis of "they may or may not
>find something useful," because of his personal prejudices not even
>considering that the well-respected avian physiologist who performed them
>may have had an important hypothesis in mind and would only have sacrificed
>an animal for what she considered a good cause. Why her "good cause" is not
>acceptable to Jack is a personal matter, not a condemnation of her methods.

Exactly. I cannot conceive of any hypothesis which would need testing by
,possibly or otherwise, taking the life of another animal. I'm just a Pollyanna,
I suppose. My main concern here is that to accept this as a cruel necessity,
one has to judge the worth of a human, or indeed the quest for validation of
a particular human concept, above the life of another animal. And I cannot do
that.

>To go from the death of a nutcracker, if it did die, to a linkage of
>science with Auschwitz is a greater leap of prejudice than I could have
>conceived before reading this. To compare the death of laboratory research
>animals (always intended to be for a good cause, even if that is debatable)
>with what went on during the Holocaust is at best in poor taste, at worst
>an insult to my sensibilities as a rational human being, much less as a
>practicing scientist.

Yes, I already apologized for this remark on Tweeters, but I will do so again
here.
Sorry everyone.

>I'm profoundly disturbed that there are attitudes like this in our society,
>and I'm especially disappointed when they are expressed by an obviously
>educated person. The irrationality of the comments to which I am responding
>reminds me of T. Kaczynski's attitudes toward scientists. An anti-science
>bias has been on the rise in recent years, often coupled with the rise of
>spiritualism and metaphysics as guiding principles and a rejection of
>rational thought. Along with anti-science goes anti-evolution. I don't feel
>in jeopardy of being lynched, but I am running a little scared.

Step back for a minute, Dennis, and ask yourself if scientists or any other
segment of society should really put themselves above all fair comment.
That my post was not fair comment is beyond debate since I mixed in too
much emotion and apparent prejudice with whatever rational thought I may
have had. But "methinks thou dost protest a bit too much". I did receive
some comments from other scientists who agreed with my sentiments,
if not the way I phrased them.

- Jack

Jack Bowling
jbowling at direct.ca
Prince George, BC




------------------------
Jack Bowling
jbowling at direct.ca