Subject: Digest of Spotting Scope Input
Date: Jan 5 09:55:13 1999
From: Ned McGarry - nmcgarry at gte.net


Thanks to all who responded to my request for opinions and information
about spotting scopes. I've got a lot to consider as I make my decision
over the next few months while I squirrel away the cash.

As promised, here are the replies I received starting off with my original
request:

This is probably a thread that has already been *thrud* at some point, but
if you could respond *directly to me and not list-wide* with helpful
information, I'll compile everyone's input and send one "digest-style"
message on the topic as soon as responses taper off.

I'm going to be purchasing a spotting scope when funds accumulate, and I'm
interested in what everyone has to say regarding their experiences in the
field using these kind of optics. I can't justify buying a Rolls Royce,
but I wouldn't be happy with a Yugo. My price range will probably end up
being $500-$800 (give or take) depending on what I learn about them and
what kind of deal I can get.

Thanks. I'll let you all know what I find out including opinions, useful
websites, etc . . .

Ned McGarry
Kirkland, WA
nmcgarry at gte.net

=========================================================

I'd reccomend the Celestron C-90. Large lense, zoom that is clean all the
way
up and I wish i had bought one instead of the one I've got. Also for 800
dollars the Leica scope is somwhere in there and you couldn't go wrong
there.
Dave Shaw
Oly WA

=========================================================

You can't beat a Kowa 822: Cost $657 with 20 x 60 zoom ( Body = $408
Zoom= $249) plus case for $44 = $701 at Eagle Optics. Shipping=$14
Grand Total= $715 Hans

Hans & Kathryn Krauss, Spokane, WA two.wing-nuts at juno.com
IT'S BETTER TO BE "WNGNUTS" (vanity plate) THAN DEAD-BOLTS

=========================================================

Hi Ned,

First I'll start with the praises of my new scope. I bought a Leica APO
(coated lens) Scope about 6 months ago. It is flat out awesome! From
your note it might be more than you want to spend. I got it at Pocono
Mountain Optics (if you don't know, mail-order is the ONLY way to go)
with a 20x60 zoom eyepiece for around $1,300 (no tax or shipping). I
know the Leica's with the non-coated lens are significantly less
expensive but I'm not sure about the quality of viewing. I haven't tried
a lot of scopes but people who have say my Leica is the best they have
used (some have said comparable with a Questar).

Besides the amazing clarity and dual focus wheels (course and fine), I
found out another benefit that Leica doesn't promote very heavily. I
dropped my scope in Mexico recently and broke one of the internal lens.
I called Leica to find out how much it would be to fix. They explained
that since I registered the product it is covered under a 3 Year
Passport Protection Program. This means whatever happens to the scope in
the first three years is completely covered for free. I sent back my
scope and received a brand new one Fed-Ex'd to me within two weeks.
(read: you get what you pay for).

Sorry I can't tell you more about other scopes but hopefully this
information and the web sites below will help.

http://www.optics4birding.com/
http://www.biddeford.com/~sing/BVD.html

If you have any other questions, feel free.

Scott Hoskin
Seattle, WA (Ballard)
bludog at earthlink.net

=========================================================

We just purchased a KOWA with 20-60x eyepiece for a little over $600.
It is well worth it.

Randy Hill, Othello

=========================================================

Ned
Almost ten years ago I bought a Kowa TSN2, which about fits your price
range. At the time, I depended a lot on a review in Living Bird (Cornell
Lab
of Ornith). They thought that the Kowa was in the top group, and the
difference between the coated and uncoated lens(TSN2 vs TSN4) only made a
difference in dim light. I also have the camera adapter and have been very
satisfied with the photos. Also the eyepiece I have liked the best is the
30X wide angle, good all around eyepiece. The 20-60 zoom wasn't
satisfactory
above about 45X, at best.

I have never regretted anything about the scope, except for the zoom (which
can be a problem with any zoom). Since Kowa has come out with the 82mm
scope, I'll bet there are some used TSN2 out there for a good price.

Good luck with your search
Gail Spitler
Johnsons Landing, BC
spitler at wkpowerlink.com

=========================================================

I posed this question a while ago and ended up with the Spacemaster. I
like it.

Jane


=========================================================

Hi Ned,

I bought a Nikon 60mm Fieldscope ED II last year and like it a lot. I did
not want a Kowa 77mm because I don't like the way the zoom lense works. "A
Better View Desired" rated the Nikon 60mm the best scope for birding
because
of many features including its smaller size. It rates very nicely with the
Kowa except in very low-light conditions - dawn, dusk or extreme distances.
I bird with Andy Stepniewski quite frequently and he has the Kowa. I
compared the view through both of them and the Nikon fared quie well. I
paid about $900 for it through Eagle Optics with another $160 for a Bogen
tripod. Be sure to get a very stable tripod - Bogen makes the best one for
birding. I have a #3221 and recommend it highly.

I don't think there is much on the market in the $500-$800 range. For a
little less you can get a decent scope but for just a little more you can
get a very fine one. If I had had more money I might have bought the Nikon
78mm. It costs about $1500. The new Kowa 84mm (I think) is an incredible
scope. George Gertz has one if you ever run into him. It also is in the
$1500 range.

Good luck,

Denny Granstrand
Yakima, WA


=========================================================

I have a Nikon Fieldscope 60mm ED and am very happy with it. Handier than
the big 70mm scopes, the view through the eyepiece is smaller but just as
detailed as the 70's. It's recommended by Better View Desired.

http://www.gwi.net/sing/BVD.html

Jack Stephens
jsteph02 at sprynet.com
Edmonds, WA
For the best prices this is where you should buy. Check different scope out
on the Audubon trips, then get one you like.

http://www.eagleoptics.com/

Jack Stephens
jsteph02 at sprynet.com
Edmonds, WA

=========================================================

Ned

One of the things I've heard from folks is that scopes seem to be even
more personal preference items than binoculars - different style
eyepieces and focusing systems in particular. One suggestion I've heard
is to look through as many as possible under field conditions (easier
said than done, but maybe a few organized field trips....)

Jan

=========================================================

Ned, you're right this FAQ comes up at least once a year. I should save
my FGR (frequently given response.) I have a Kowa 60mm scope with the
flourite optics and a 20X ocular. It is an excellent scope & I'd get
another if I had to. I've looked through a similar scope with a zoom
ocular & decided that the image was degraded at all powers. Mine retailed
for about $600 from the New York mail order camera stores. I recommend
Adorama or B&H, as unlikely to pressure you or bait and switch. I
recently acquired a Burris 60mm roof prism scope with a zoom ocular. This
scope is very light and compact and backpackable. Burris makes scopes
and binoculars purchased primarily by hunters and available from sporting
goods stores. I had to send the scope back since it was out of focus and
the zoom didn't keep it in focus at all powers. They sent me a new one,
which is OK.

Resolution (sharpness), light gathering (a function of the objective size
and ocular power) and flatness of field are more important than
magnification. I seldom use more than 20-25X magnification in any but the
very best scopes because you just get a bigger blurred image, plus you
magnify heat waves and other optical problems. A curved field means only
the center of the field is useable. Since most people get only one scope
in their lifetime get the best you can afford.

------Herb Curl

=========================================================

I would suggest looking at the Nikon *60mm* scope with ED glass. The
77-80mm
scopes are very popular right now, but one with the top quality glass
(names
vary by manufacturer - ED, APO, etc) run over $1000. I have an older Nikon
with ED glass, and with a 30x eyepiece; it has about the same quality as a
friend's 77mm Leica (a wonderful but pricey scope) with the 20-60x zoom at
30x. I'm sure the newer Nikon scopes are better than mine.
The nice thing about 60mm scopes is that they're not as heavy and
cumbersome
as those with larger objectives, which is something to consider if you're
hauling one for several miles. (Keep in mind that the best scope in the
world isn't any good without a sturdy tripod.) While a scope with larger
objective lets in more light, top quality glass gives a bright image that
compensates for a smaller objective. Also, one caution - if you want a
zoom
eyepiece, definitely get the good glass.
Have fun looking.

Ruth

=========================================================

Greetings-

You might want to try a Mercedes. The Questar (at 5000$, definitely the
Rolls)
is a fantastic scope, but is limited not only be cost but is also limited
by
fragility and the limited height at which it can be used (you have to look
straight down to view, so you can't bring the scope up very high unless you
are very tall).

The Swarovski (either regular or high density) is fabulous. The scope plus
zoom eyepiece is somewhere around 1000 or 1100$. The image at high power is
breath taking and the equipment is rugged. I was in a car accident where my
Trooper got flipped onto its side. The tripod to which the scope was
attached
got bent. The scope was undamaged. Also, the scope toppled in high winds
onto
hard pavement. The dent in the side almost perforated the metal, yet the
scope
works without a hitch. A Kowa would have been shattered. Finally, the
service
department is wonderful, and for extended work, will send you a loaner
scope
of the same model! I am one extraordinarily happy customer, especially
after
dealing with Bausch and Lomb and its inadequate service department.

Best Wishes and Happy Viewing
Steven Mlodinow

=========================================================

Hi Ned,

Sorry it took so long to get to this recommendation but I
would suggest taking a look at the Tele Vue Ranger. I have
used one for years and had lots of opportunity to compare it
with most of the scopes used by birders, including the high
end fluorite scopes. Almost everyone is impressed by it and
that is before they find out what a deal this one is. Eagle
Optics currently lists this scope for $598 (45 degree model).

I suggest taking a look at it at Captain's Nautical (2500 15th
Ave. N Seattle), along with the other scopes to compare. This
scope was designed for astronomical use and uses standard
astronomy (1-1/4" dia.) eyepieces so you get a huge selection
of possible eyepieces. This also means that zooms are less
common and the tube is not sealed. Many birders don't realize
what the convenience of the zoom costs them in terms of
brightness and sharpness. I carry about three eyepieces that
drop in without too much hassle. I keep them in a small
belted money pouch. If you are out in the rain all day just
remove the prism and eyepiece overnight and it dries out since
the moisture is not captured. This scope does require care in
securing eyepieces before carrying, though, and the lines are
not at "clean" and "streamlined" as the other scopes. It is a
matter of personal preference weighed against cost. Another
good feature is close focus of less than twenty feet,
(depending on eyepiece). If you decide on this one I
recommend the green one as the white one is too bright and
sometimes scares birds when you move it quickly and I also
recommend the 45 degree erecting prism.

Tele Vue was started by Al Nagler, who did optical design for
NASA and has created quite a reputation in the astronomy
world. Part of the success of this scope is the custom
optimization of each doublet in the objective lens for color
correction. Nagler has also distinguished himself as an
eyepiece designer. There is a review of this scope in Sky and
Telescope magazine Nov 95 issue.

As far as tripods go, the Bogen 3205 with the 3130 fluid pan
head is hard to beat.

Hope this is helpful. If you have any questions I can be
reached at 425-259-6877 or: eschulz at gte.net

Ed Schulz
Everett, WA


Ned McGarry
Kirkland, WA
nmcgarry at gte.net