Like I said I have lived in the Seattle area for a short time and my
experience with nighthawks and thus my perception is from much more rural
environments. The observations that I mention in June and July I guess
could be breeders which changes my perception, it was just my thought on
the issue and by the look of things my perception was wrong, fine by me (I
learned something).
As for the purple finch numbers I'll tell you what type of numbers I'm
getting and I'll let other people decide if thats similar to historic
numbers. Near North Bend in an area proposed for Housing devolpment I
heard at least a dozen singing males. This area is probably 150 ha. Who
knows what this denstity will be once the houses are put in. I have seen
multiple males singing in areas like the Carnation marsh, Bridal Trails
(along the powerlines). While obviously not near as common as HOFI if I go
into the suburbs I'm not *suprised to see Purple Finches* as much as I am
in Seattle.
On the article running, please do. I'm defiently not saying these species
numbers are fine, I was just wondering if there numbers were ever high in
Seattle in say the last 30-40 years. I'd like to hear some other comments
from people that could clarify this for me.

Thanks,

Scott Downes
sdownes at u.washington.edu
Seattle WA

"Birds don't read bird books. (That's why they are seen doing things they
are not supposed to do)." -Mary Wood


On 10 May 1999, Ed Newbold wrote:

> Dear Tweeters,
> I=92d like to thank Scott Downes for his great answer to my post about de=
clining
> Nighthawks and Purple Finch. But I have to take exception, Scott, on a c=
ouple
> points. =93Generally,=94 you say, =93these species seem like species tha=
t should do
> very poorly in the city and Seattle has been a large city for some time.=
=94 In
> Seattle, Common Nighthawks lived in the neighborhoods=97like Phinney and =
Capitol
> Hill, and there was always at least one pair in the Central Business
> District. They flew over the tops of the skyscrapers and you could hear =
them
> from places like 4th and Pike. Saying they seem like species that should=
n=92t
> do well in the city is ignoring my interest in why they once did very wel=
l in
> this city and then failed, circa 1979 -1985 .
>=20
> Secondly I defer to your greater birding ability, but I disagree that the=
y are
> in =93decent=94 numbers now anywhere in the central Puget Sound Basin. (=
Please, I
> hope to be convinced I=92m wrong there and would be ecstatic if I were). =
They
> have also declined horribly in coastal BC. =20
>=20
> Historically, bird populations ebb and flow and shift with time. Western
> Bluebirds were once abundant here, and Purple Martens used to nest on the=
Bon
> Building and other buildings downtown (The Yesler Building until 1979) an=
d now
> they don=92t. Let=92s never confuse being mature and philosophical abou=
t changes
> that we sometimes can=92t control with being in denial these changes have
> occurred. =20
>=20
> You ask what could have changed in Seattle and mention insect loads and
> development that don=92t seem to be obvious candidates but there are two =
others
> that you didn=92t mention that could be: wintering grounds and predator=
s.=20
> Remember, urbanized crows did not breed in Seattle in any numbers until t=
he
> 40s and the urban crow flock was probably building in numbers and densit=
y and
> maybe in skill at the time of the Nighthawk demise and at the time of the
> final end for downtown Purple Martins so that would be an obvious major l=
ead.
> =20
> As far as Purple Finches, this bird may not be fighting for it=92s life b=
ut it
> seems like it=92s in a general retreat from the urbanized/ suburbanized a=
reas,
> and this could be a really bad sign for the urbanized future. Both Chri=
stmas
> count and Breeding Bird Census show big long term Purple Finch declines.
>=20
> Thanks, Scott, I really do appreciate the very expert feedback, but I=92m=
still
> running the Weekly ad. I believe there is a need here for some public
> mourning on this issue and when it comes to not having Nighthawks routine=
ly
> appear in my life anymore, this boy is one mournful sucker.
> -Ed Newbold, Seattle (newboldwildlife at netscape.net)
>=20
>=20
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webm=
ail.netscape.com.
>=20