Subject: Kumlien's Gull
Date: Jan 20 13:55:37 2000
From: D Marven - marven at home.com


In answer to Greg's question, it has long been thought by some leading
ornithologists both in the U.S.A.and in Great Britain that Kumlien's
Gull is a seperate species and should be split from Iceland, but your
right Greg in as much that at this point in time that they are one
species. There are some that say that Thayer's are also part of this
same group and that they should all be lumped together, would you not
look to i.d. Thayers in this case.
If some day down the road the gods that split, decide to seperate these
species and your Gull down in Washington State has not been properly
I.D., what will you do then,just accept it as Kumlien's, thats not
right.
This bird should have all the possible field marks noted and that
includes the underwing.
I have recieved lots of private email from birders telling me i'm
stirring the muck,well what's wrong with capturing this bird that can't
fly remember, photographing it properly,( underwing )measure it properly
(wings ) and then putting back in the same spot and give it a couple of
smelts for it's trouble.
Remember their was some falconer type that captured the Eurasian
Kestrel, banded it measured it photogrphed it and then let it go and
that bird could fly, get him over to net the beastie.
Well enough of Gulls i'm going out to look for the soon to be split
Lesser-spotted Towhee. Derrick.

Derrick Marven
Duncan B.C.
home of the hybrid
marven at home.com

Greg Toffic wrote:
>
> Derrick,
> You say that Kumlein's is not a recognized species. So, since it is not a species to itself, what species is it? And why is a Kumlein's not an Iceland?
> Greg Toffic
> Seattle
>
> >>> D Marven <marven at home.com> 01/19 10:52 PM >>>
> Hi Ruth
> This bird is not an Iceland Gull, if anything it is a Kumliens Gull,
> there is a major difference and people should not be refering to it
> as Iceland, and untill the underwing pattern is seen there is no way of
> telling, i don't care who the experts are they can't tell.
> I might also add i have already seen pictures of this gull.
> Kumlien's in itself is not a recognised species and should be treated
> with great caution in identifying a bird like this.
> Everybody is jumping to conclusions without first getting all the
> fieldmarks.
> It's a bad sign when so and so says it's one so it must be?
> Derrick Marven
> Duncan B.C.
> home of the hybrid
> marven at home.com
>
> Ruth Sullivan wrote:
> >
> > Hello Marven and Tweeters,
> > I photographed this bird in any angle and every position for every one to
> > see on the internet soon. We had many different expert birders opinion
> > before it was put on to tweeters.This bird was found around the 10th of
> > January and not published to we all was sure it is a Iceland Gull. Bruce
> > Labar give a real good description of this bird,and in order to see the
> > underwings we have to catch this bird, because this bird can not fly.I hope
> > my photos going to be proof enough to say this bird is an winter Adult
> > Iceland Gull.
> >
> > Ruth Sullivan
> > Tacoma
> > godwit at worldnet.att.net
> >
> > ----------
> > > From: D Marven <marven at home.com>
> > > To: tweeter <tweeters at u.washington.edu>
> > > Subject: Kumlien's Gull
> > > Date: Wednesday, January 19, 2000 9:46 PM
> > >
> > > Dennis Paulson writes that the gull is a typical (Kumlien's) Iceland
> > > Gull, please Dennis to help us all what are the identifying fields marks
> > > for a typical Kumlien's. And without seeing the underwing pattern how
> > > can you be so sure with this rare West coast species, or maybe did you
> > > see the underwing? Derrick
> > >
> > > Derrick Marven
> > > Duncan B.C.
> > > home of the hybrid
> > >
> > > marven at home.com