Whooo-boy what a can of House Sparrows this is.....

Should one argue that, say, Yellow-throated Warbler cannot
be counted on one's list because it has failed to become
established Washington?

How about California Condor? Essentially extirpated from
all known habitats. Sure, it held on for 50,000+ years, but
really failed to acheive permanant status. And there's
this fantasy that they maybe reintroduced as a viable population
someday, maybe even on the Columbia Gorge. But until that
magic day do those who managed to tick condors before the
last of them were "rescued" have to take them off their list?

I know what some of you are going to say. Mynas were introduced
and Yellow-throated Warbler got here on its own. But then it could
also be argued that this is a symantical arguement based on the
bad science that assumes man is not part of nature.

Perhaps no North American species should be counted because we
are in introduced species...

I know a place where one can find several thousand European
Starlings all of which established themselves without introduction
and it's just minutes from my house. Even though starling were
a human introduction in the east, the population we enjoy arrived
in the Pacific Northwest unassisted (all local attempts to
introduce starlings failed, believe it or not).

Back in my serious chasing days I failed to find the Skylarks
or mynas in Vancouver and I couldn't find the condors in their
last free range. So I really have nothing to lose. Except
maybe this arguement....



Rachel Lawson wrote:
>
> I have been following with some interest the decline of the Vancouver
> population of the Crested Myna. How ironic that this exotic starling
> should be out-competed by another exotic starling! At least, in this case,
> the losing species is still thriving in its original Asian range. I am
> wondering, did the Crested Mynah ever have any impact on native species
> similar to that of the European Starling? Should we be sad, neutral or
> happy about this?
>
> The demise of the last two birds in Vancouver may have repercussions for
> those listers among us. While discussing with my Florida birding friend
> Wes Biggs the somewhat arcane ABA rules about listing exotics in North
> America (quite relevant in a place like Florida), Wes said that, if an
> established exotic species disappears, we must all delete it from our ABA
> lists, because its disappearance demonstrates that it was never REALLY
> established in the first place. This would seem to make sense with some
> exotics that come and go quickly, but in this case, when the species has
> been around for a century, it doesn't seem right.
>
> Rachel Lawson
> RachelLawson at softhome.net
> Seattle

--
Mike Patterson When I despair, I remember
Astoria, OR that all through history
celata at pacifier.com the way of truth and love have always won.
There have been tyrants, and murderers,
and for a time they can seem invincible,
but in the end they always fall.
Think of it...always.
- Mahatma Gandhi

http://www.pacifier.com/~mpatters/bird/bird.html