Denny - I think the real question here is "How can you tell?" On what basis
should we write down "American Crow" versus "Northwestern Crow", even if we
*do* believe there are more than one species?

What field marks do we need to observe? Or what habitat is essential? Or what
geographic boundaries need to be crossed?

I think it's pretty clear that the vast majority of urban Seattle crows are
American and not Northwestern. If I recall correctly, the original reference
was to crows slightly north of Seattle (correct me if I'm wrong). Given that
there *may* be some Northwestern Crows along the beaches north of Seattle, it
is appropriate to question an identification to species of the crows involved.

I personally *think* I've seen and heard a difference between the crows in Neah
Bay and the crows in Redmond, and I call the former "Northwestern Crow". But
if one of those showed up in my yard in Kirkland, I doubt I could tell.

I guess we ought to be calling them "Crow sp." unless there is reason to
believe otherwise, and if there IS reason to believe otherwise, we ought to be
prepared to explain.

== Michael Hobbs
== Kirkland WA
== hummer at isomedia.com

----- Original Message -----
From: <osprey at nwinfo.net>
To: <TWEETERS at u.washington.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 12:34 PM
Subject: Re: "Northwestern Crows" (from Burt Guttman)


> We can't go through life making our own rules. We have to follow some sort
> of order in our activities. As far as the activity of birds and birding,
> the AOU is the (or "a") governing body. Until someone provides them with
> scientific documentation that shows for certain that American and
> Northwestern Crows are the same species, and they make that change in the
> list, it seems to me that we should follow their list as it stands.
>
> The fact that "most ornithologists in this area" might believe the crows are
> of the same species doesn't matter unless they are proving it with
> scientific research. There used to be a lot of experts who thought the
> world was flat until "research" proved them wrong. Lets let the research
> prove this case. I understand that several studies are underway and
> hopefully we won't have to wait much longer for the results.
>
> It does seem odd, though, that many of the birders who don't list the
> Northwestern Crow will include it on a Big Day or Birdathon list for enhance
> the numbers.
>
> Denny Granstrand
> Yakima, WA
> * * * * * * * * * * *
>
>
>