With all due respect to Steve's experience and Dave Czaplak's (I recall
seeing his many records in DC from Rock Creek Park in MD Birdlife and Am.
Birds), I beg to differ on the obviousness of exilipes-type Hoary Redpoll
amid a flock of Commons. I have not seen hornemanni, but the exilipes I've
seen have stood out as far as initial impression of whiteness or "frosty"
(at least to my eyes) and all but a couple of sightings have been in the
company of Commons. Those individuals tending toward the darker end of the
exilipes spectrum, and closer to the pale end of Common--I've not felt
comfortable calling as exilipes.

By the way, in the Russian Far East there is the same exilipes (not
hornemanni) as we have in the western N. America, and it has been documented
nesting commonly as far south as north Kamchatka (Lobkov 1986, Gerasimov et
al 1999). Exilipes-type Hoaries are less numerous in winter than Common
Redpoll further south on the Kamchatka, but are still fairly common (my
records). Without exception, my winter sightings near Petropavlovsk have
been of one or a scattering of exilipes within a group of Commons, and the
birds stand out (again, a relative term) immediately in such circumstances.
Exilipes ranges much further south to the Kuriles and rarely on Sakhalin
(Nechaev 1991), further into n. China and n. Japan (Honshu) (MacKinnon et al
2000, de Schauensee 1984, Birds of Japan 1982, etc.), in parallel to our
birds that range (some winters) south to the n. tier of states in the U.S.

I think we need to keep in mind that there would not seem to be 100%
consensus on distinguishing field marks, judging from international material
on the two species. The apparent overlap between (especially) female/imm.
exilipes and brighter Commons has encouraged some to consider the two taxa
conspecific, even in Russia, where (speaking candidly) the Russians are not
normally inclined to lump these days. I do find it interesting that among
distinguishing field marks noted, most stress is placed on overall paleness
and the white, unstreaked rump for exilipes; the undertail coverts are not
as much discussed (Flint et al 1984, I don't have Dementev with me but I
think Flint's conclusions are influenced by Dementev). Peterson (Birds of
Britain & Europe, 1993) says NO streaks are present on the undertail coverts
of Hoary, yet this seems to refer to hornemanni.


REFERENCES (RUSSIA)

V. Flint et al, Birds of the USSR, 1984
Yu. N. Gerasimov, Yu. B. Artukhin, E. G. Lobkov, Checklist of the Birds of
Kamchatka, 1999
Ye. Lobkov, Gnezdyashchiyesya Ptitsy Kamchatki, 1986
V. Nechaev, Ptitsy Sakhalin, 1991


Scott Atkinson
Lake Stevens
email: scottratkinson at hotmail.com


>From: SGMlod at aol.com
>Reply-To: SGMlod at aol.com
>To: Tweeters at u.washington.edu
>Subject: Hoary Reds
>Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 23:43:48 EST
>
>Hello All
>
>I apologize for keeping on about redpoll ID.
>
>There are two races of Hoary Redpoll: hornemanni and exilipes. The former
>breeds in Greenland and occasionally occurs in eastern North America. Some
>member of this race can be very white (and somewhat large). I've seen one
>of
>these. It really stood out.
>
>Unfortunately, most of the Hoaries in North America (and probably all of
>the
>Hoaries out west) are exilipes. These look VERY MUCH like the pale end of
>Common Redpoll variation. Such birds are unlikely to be obvious to the
>casual
>glance. They will NOT stand out dramatically among a hoard of Commons --
>hence the existence of so very many articles on redpoll ID and such lengthy
>debates at bird records committee meetings.
>
>For those interested, please look at Czaplak's article in Birding,
>referenced
>in a recent post by Ian Paulson. This article is both informative and
>humbling.
>
>Cheers and Happy New Years
>Steven Mlodinow
>SGMlod at aol.com
>
>


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