Dennis et al.,

Maybe we should just report them as Aratinga sp.? They were reported by two
groups. We saw seven flying south over the Montlake Fill in the early AM and
someone else reported 9 some distance away (Seward Park?). All we could see
was that they were Aratinga types about Mourning Dove size. They were
calling. I can't reproduce the sound but it was what attracted our attention
as they approached.

Gene.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Netta Smith" <nettasmith at attbi.com>
To: <tweeters at u.washington.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 8:02 PM
Subject: Re: Seattle CBC parakeets


> Gene, these parakeets are definitely confusing, as there are several
rather
> similar-looking species, and the subspecific variation within some of them
> confuses the issue even more. I've been going by the descriptions in both
> Forshaw's Parrots of the World and the recent volume on same by Juniper
and
> Parr, also checking with some of the Neotropical guides. Scarlet-fronted
is
> my best guess, although some individuals within the flock have just about
> the right amount of red for Crimson-fronted, and it was this type that I
> photographed years ago and made me think they were Crimson-fronted. But
> immature Scarlet-fronted have less red, and there is variation in that
> species depending on what subspecies it is, so it's kind of a mess, and
it's
> not absolutely certain that all the birds are the same species. But
> definitely some of them have too much red to be Crimson-fronted. When I
> looked at a flock last winter, I saw quite a bit of variation in the
amount
> of red on the head - proof of breeding?
>
> The two species are also different in size, and the largest subsp. of
> Scarlet-fronted (the one with red on the wings) is supposed to be 40 cm in
> length, while Crimson-fronted is supposed to be 26-28, and we should be
able
> to see that difference. Although it's been a couple of decades since I've
> seen wild individuals of either species, so I don't have a good feeling
for
> size, the birds I've seen around here look closer to 40 cm.
>
> Scarlet-fronted is more likely to have red on the thighs (not always easy
to
> see), but apparently some Crimson-fronted are similarly colored.
> Crimson-fronted has yellow greater underwing coverts as well as red median
> and lesser underwing coverts, while Scarlet-fronted (the subspecies in
> question) has only red under the wing; in both species the red shows at
the
> bend of the wing. I haven't seen any yellow on the birds around here, but
> I'll admit some times I was looking at them I wasn't thinking of this. I
> would say more careful observations would still be of value, but I
> definitely don't think they can be called Crimson-fronted at this time.
The
> color under the wing might be the only positive mark for individual birds
> with less red on the forehead.
>
> Dennis
> --
> Netta Smith and Dennis Paulson
> 1724 NE 98 St.
> Seattle, WA 98115
>
> ----------
> >From: "Eugene Hunn" <enhunn at attbi.com>
> >To: <nettasmith at attbi.com>, <tweeters at u.washington.edu>
> >Subject: Re: Seattle CBC parakeets
> >Date: Wed, Jan 2, 2002, 4:57 PM
> >
>
> > Dennis,
> >
> > Thanks for the clarification. I called them Crimson-fronted (and so
reported
> > them last year) on the basis of your earlier identification. I had
called
> > them Green Parakeets on first encounter, but didn't get great looks. I
will
> > so advise the computer at Cornell. Could you provide us with a brief
account
> > of the possibilities and how one might distinguish a given individual?
> >
> > Gene.