-----Original Message-----
From: Richard E. Johnson <johnsonre at wsu.edu>
To: inland-nw-birders at uidaho.edu <inland-nw-birders at uidaho.edu>
Date: Thursday, June 20, 2002 8:34 PM
Subject: Re: [inland-NW-birders] Fw: Alder Flycatcher


>>
>>To: "David Beaudette" <drtbrdr at earthlink.net>
>>From: "Richard E. Johnson" <johnsonre at wsu.edu>
>>Subject: Re: [inland-NW-birders] Fw: Alder Flycatcher
>>Cc:
>>Bcc:
>>X-Attachments:
>>
>>David and inlanders,
>>
>>Just a quick reply, as I am on the run.
>>
>>There are numerous sonograms published in the following two papers. The
>>paper by Stein is one of several he published that resulted in splitting
>>Traill's Flycatcher into Alder and Willow. He recorded birds from
>>throughout the US (including eastern and western Washington, Oregon,
>>Calif., Arizona, Utah, British Columbia, Alberta, Manitoba, and eastward
>>to the New England states) in areas where both songtypes (= species) occur
>>and where only one is present. He found no evidence of intermediate
>>sonograms, though there were a couple that sounded confusing to the ear.
>>The confusion evaporated when the sonograms were examined.
>>
>>Kroodsma attempted to teach nestlings (removed from the nest to prevent
>>song contamination) of each type the song of the other, and was unable to
>>do so. Each sang the song of its parents, the implication being that the
>>songs are innate, not learned.
>>
>>I believe Stein's recordings are deposited at Cornell (Lab of
>>Ornithology). Some of them are probably those used on so many commercial
>>bird song tapes released by Cornell since that time, including the
>>Peterson tapes. But, of course, those tapes only give songs of a very few
>>(probably 1-3) individuals.
>>
>>There are probably also good tapes at Ohio State University, where Don
>>Borror (and, now, Abbot and Sandra Gaunt) have established a good sized
>>library of tapes of bird songs in the Borror Lab of Bioacoustics.
>>
>>Hopefully, comparison of sonograms made from tapes of the birds seen
>>recently in Washington can be clearly identified by comparison with those
>>in the two publications below.
>>
>>Stein, R. C. 1963. Isolating mechanisms between populations of Traill's
>>Flycatchers. Proceedings of the American Philosophical Society 107:
21-50.
>>
>>Kroodsma, D. E. 1984. Songs of the Alder Flycatcher (Empidonax alnorum)
>>and Willow Flycatcher (Empidonax traillii) are innate. Auk 101: 13-24.
>>
>>Dick Johnson
>>School of Biological Sciences
>>Washington State University
>>Pullman, WA 99164-4236
>>johnsonre at wsu.edu
>>
>>
>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: David Beaudette <drtbrdr at earthlink.net>
>>>To: Tweeters Messages <tweeters at u.washington.edu>
>>>Date: Thursday, June 20, 2002 5:00 PM
>>>Subject: Alder Flycatcher
>>>
>>>
>>>>Thanks to all who have added to this discussion. Several times it has
been
>>>>mentioned that birders may hear the same bird and give differing verbal
>>>>descriptions of what the bird sounded like. So, when documenting a
rarity
>>>>like Alder
>>>>Flycatcher a recording is the way to go. So if we get a good quality
>>>>recording and then
>>>>a sonogram, then what? What do we compare it to with confidence?
>>>>
>>>>Is there a definitive study out there on Alder vocalizations that we
could
>>>>use as a base of info on vocals for this species. Hopefully one that has
>>>>looked
>>>>at vocals from across the range. Looking at Sibley, the Alder
>>>>has a very large range. If they all sound the same from across this
range,
>>>>has this been
>>>>documented with sonograms? What repository of Alder sonograms from
>>>>throughout
>>>>the range do we examine? Where does a state bird records committee go?
>>>>If comparative sonograms are not reflective of the range of the species
and
>>>>possibly some examples of known individual variation the process of
>>>>comparison could be flawed. Museums have specimens of many individuals
of
>>>>the same species to show the range of variation. Hopefully the same is
true
>>>>for bird sound.
>>>>
>>>>Since Washington is out of the main range for Alder could some or most
>>>>of these Alder candidates be hybrids with Willow? What would a hybrid
sound
>>>>like?
>>>>
>>>>Sorry for all the questions but when thinking about the Alder/Willow ID
in
>>>>WA State, I wonder if we really have the answers.
>>>>
>>>>I have listened to Willow Flycatchers quite a bit and I can sometimes
>>>>hear variations in the song in just the same patch from different birds.
>>>>Hearing protection I used at those Grateful Dead concerts was a good
thing.
>>>>
>>>>Dave Beaudette
>>>>Wenatchee,WA
>>>>drtbrdr at earthlink.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>
>
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