Tweeters,

Woops-- sorry about the 5 SIBERIAN ACCENTORS I erroneously reported
from Fort Casey State Park on April 15. Bob was right, it was a typo--
they were actually EUROPEAN STARLINGS!!

As for Northwestern Crows, Bob is probably correct that Northwesterns
and Americans are not good species-- they interbreed over a wide area
in western Washington. However, it is my belief, based on many years
of birding experience, that crows in San Juan and Island Counties, as
well as those in western Whatcom and Skagit Counties, are essentially
Northwesterns, as their size and vocalizations to me appear identical
to those of the pure Northwesterns I see in BC. The same probably goes
for those in coastal Clallam County and at least part of Jefferson
County, although I have far less birding experience there. I call them
as I
see them (and hear them).

I am copying below a message that I sent to TWEETERS 2 years ago on
crow distribution in Washington. If others have different impressions
of crow distribution, please let us know!

_________________________________________________________


Ornithologists recognize 2 species of crows in the Northwest: the
smaller Northwestern Crow, generally found in coastal areas from
south-central Alaska to the Puget Sound area and the Olympic
Peninsula, and the American Crow, found in all other areas. However,
in the last 50 to 100 years, American Crows have spread westward in
Washington due to the creation of new habitat by the clearing of
forest. They have apparently interbred with Northwestern Crows to the
point where, in much of western Washington, it's hard to say what kind
of crow is present, and many of us just call them "crows". In fact,
the two species should almost certainly be "lumped", but the American
Ornithologists' Union, which rules on such matters, has not made this
decision yet.

In southeastern Alaska and in coastal British Columbia-- unlike
Washington-- there is little or no overlap and/or hybridization
between the two crows, and any crow seen west of the Cascade/Coast
Range crest can safely be called a Northwestern.

In my birding experience in WA, virtually all crows I see in San Juan
and Island Counties, and in western Whatcom and Skagit Counties, look
and sound like Northwestern Crows, and I record them as such. Most
crows in coastal parts of the Olympic Peninsula are probably
Northwesterns as well.

However, by the time you get south to Snohomish and King Counties, the
picture becomes much more confused, and it is safer to just call them
"crow species". Even in eastern parts of Whatcom and Skagit Counties
(e.g. around Diablo Lake), the crows there look and sound to me like
American Crows.

Others may have somewhat different impressions of the local
distribution of crows in WA-- and I'd be interested in hearing them--
but I believe the overall picture I've drawn is fairly accurate.

Wayne C. Weber
Kamloops and Delta, BC
contopus at home.com

___________________________________________________

----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Norton <norton36 at olypen.com>
To: <contopus at telus.net>; <tweeters at u.washington.edu>
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 9:50 PM
Subject: Re:Northwestern Crows and Siberian Accentors, was Fort Casey
Census


Wayne and Tweeters,

I understand that crow researchers have not yet been able to
find any small crows with the correct Northwestern measurements in the
state
of Washington. They were probably here when the white man arrived but
widespread clearcutting and farming allowed the American Crows in
and free interbreeding led to the demise of the species(?) in the
lower 48. I
understand from the Fraser River north into Alaska they are "pure"
except there is one place in Alaska that American Crows have reached
and
there are many intergrades there. If anyone knows more about this than
I do,
please share on the list. I don't think it is a good species in the
first
place. Only the gulls can get away with such behavior and still be
called
separate species.
Sure we have some smaller crows along the coast and they are
present down the coast thru Oregon and in to at least northern
California
but they are not Northwestern! Maybe too much salt stunts a crow's
growth!

I presume that the 5 Siberian Accentors were a typo as Wayne is
a meticulous and knowledgeable birder.

Bob Norton
Joyce (near Port Angeles), WA
norton36 at olypen.com