I forwarded these pictures to OBOL and received the following
responses regarding the first bird:

>From Alan Contreras <acontrer at mindspring.com>

I am not a gull expert but after eliminating a few things I suspect that
this is a darkish first-year Ring-bill that has not had the decency to molt
in a timely fashion.

My first reaction was Thayer's but the tertials look too pale and splotchy
and the whole pattern is too uneven. Also a first-winter Thayer's
ought to
have an all-dark bill, maybe a bit longer than this bird.

It seems to be getting the dark covert centers that a winter Ring-bill would
have, and the center of the back may well be coming in as pale gray, a
couple of months late.


>From Phil Pickering <philliplc at harborside.com>

It is a Thayer's, but it's a 2nd-winter. Some 2nd-winter Thayer's
only have scattered splotches of gray on the scaps and back like
this bird, while retaining markings that look sort of like juvenile but
are generally more uneven and finer (2nd-winter Thayer's can be very
beautifully patterned).

The head shape is very much like a Ring-billed, but R-b juv. shouldn't
have a pale underside to outer primary or the white inner edge to the
primary stack (both good Thayer's marks). Juvenile R-b also should have
more solidly dark-centered or pale dark-tipped juv. scaps and coverts,
rather than barred like this bird, and I don't think juv R-b would show fine
bar type markings on the tertials.

Hard to tell, but it also appears that the inner tail is too solid for
typical
Ring-billed.

And, as Alan indicated, the vast majority (virtually all?) 1st-winter R-b
should have molted the majority of their juv. scaps/coverts/tertials
by January - and show a much more adult-like appearance than
this bird, with a near-complete adult gray mantle and black tertials.
The opposite is true for "1st-winter" Thayer's, which typically retain
most of their juvenile plumage into spring.


>From Dave Lauten birdsong at harborside.com

I tend to agree with Phil that this is a Thayer's Gull, but Phil, I am
confused about your last sentences

Phil Pickering wrote:
>
> And, as Alan indicated, the vast majority (virtually all?) 1st-winter R-b
> should have molted the majority of their juv. scaps/coverts/tertials
> by January - and show a much more adult-like appearance than
> this bird, with a near-complete adult gray mantle and black tertials.
> The opposite is true for "1st-winter" Thayer's, which typically retain
> most of their juvenile plumage into spring.
>
You indicated the bird was a second winter bird in your first paragraph,
so then why are we talking about a 1st winter Thayer's retaining juvenal
plumage (not juvenile plumage, sorry to be picky)? Furthermore, a
second winter Thayer's should have almost a complete gray back, as most
if not all the mantle and scaps should have molted into adult colors,
something this bird has no sign of.

Is this a first winter bird, or a second winter bird?








"Michael G. Shepard" wrote:
>
> You are welcome to forward this message to wherever .....
>
> Greetings all laridophiles (and laridophobes for that matter)!
>
> Last May, I acquired a digital camera - it's causing me to look more closely
> at birds. I thought I would be snapping and looking later, but no dice!
>
> Anyway, I've posted a miniature gull quiz (the quiz is small, not the
> gulls). It has some toughies and some easier ones, and there's a bit of
> humour thrown in as well.
>
> The first one is the bird I asked about a few days ago, and the rest are
> birds photographed today (January 5, 2003) along the Victoria waterfront.
>
> The quiz is posted at http://216.21.159.146/birds/seagull.html Your
> comments would be appreciated.
>
> I've also spent quite a bit of time over the past few weeks updating the
> North American Bird Information Web Site. Check out the recent postings
> section:
> http://www.islandnet.com/~mgs/birds/recentpostings.html
>
> Have fun!!!
>
> Michael G. Shepard
> North American Bird Information Web Site:
> http://www.islandnet.com/~mgs/birds/

--
Mike Patterson
Astoria, OR
celata at pacifier.com

A child who becomes acquainted with the birds about him
hears every sound and puzzles out its meaning with a cleverness
that amazes those with ears who hear not.

-Neltje Blanchan

http://www.pacifier.com/~mpatters/bird/bird.html