Subject: Renton GBBG comment, ID-F response
Date: Feb 2 20:23:47 2004
From: Phillip Pickering - philliplc at harborside.com


I posted today because as far as I know noone has ever
acknowledged on Tweeters that there are multiple experts
(not talking about myself) that share the same reservations
about the gull. Posting of one "looks perfect" opinion as was
done is misleading concerning the state of disagreement that
exists about this bird beyond Tweeters - disagreement well
beyond a level that should exist if the bird were perfect
as was stated. Sorry if you consider that policing.

My statements are meant at face value. Reading any extra
meaning into them is silly. I'm certainly not implying anthing
about the WBRC.

The entire (missed) point of the argument that intergrades
might be more prone to wander out of range is that, IF the
bird is atypical, numerical probabilities can't be safely used
to support the ID. The same thing can be said about arguments
concerning how rare intergrades likely are, or for that matter
arguments about what other species could possibly be
involved. The state of our knowledge is not sufficient to
use such argments, and, if the gull is atypical, using them
is reversing the burden of proof. Of course if you think
it's typical you don't need to use those arguments anyway.

I have studied numerous species both in the field and extensively
in photos, and I've often found that photos can be quite revealing
in terms of shape aspects - because you can study them so much
more intimately in most cases. It's not possible to place the
Washington gull in a flock of GBBG, but I can and have placed
it next to numerous random GBBGs in a photo program to directly
compare structural aspects. It clearly stands out as different to me,
- beyond what appears to be GBBG's normal range of variation.
That's ALL I've been trying to say.

Forgive overposting about this, I'm not meaning to annoy
anyone. I assumed those that are overburdened would
just delete :) I had received multiple personal communications
expressing interest in my arguments or I wouldn't have kept
going on Tweeters - trying to clarify them. Will keep it
private from now on.

Without making a case? Ouch. Oh well.

Cheers,

Phil