Thanks Jeff. When I read about territories it was by species. It did not talk about interaction. What you wrote makes sense. That is true with all birds to some degree. They all have a little different eating habits. That is why they all have something to eat most of the time in normal situations.

We have a large feeder as well as a shelf from which we feed a seed mixture that includes shelled peanuts. Most of the woodpeckers eat them as well as the suet. I think we have enough places for them to eat that there isn't a need for competition. The only birds we see interacting are some of the smaller ones and Steller's jays. My bride was amazed the first time she saw a flicker at the feeder. She couldn't believe how the smaller birds were not afraid of it. That is what we have observed from all the woodpeckers except when starlings try to chase them from the suet. That is fun to watch.

Thanks again, Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Kozma
To: Tweeters
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Tweeters] flickers in groups/woodpecker competition


There is not normally competition between woodpecker species for food resources. Studies have been done looking at foraging methods of various woodpeckers and most of them avoid competition by feeding on different food resources or in different manners. For instance, Hairy's excavate deeper into wood for insects while White-headed Woodpeckers forage mostly subsurface below or on the bark. Pileated's obviously forage much more deeply than Hairy Woodpeckers for different prey (carpenter ants). There is also usually partioning in foraging location between sexes of the same species. For instance, male White-headed Woodpeckers forage more on the upper portion of ponderosa pines and in the cones where as females forage more on the trunk and lower in the tree. The same partitioning has been found in Hairy Woodpeckers as well, with sexes avoiding competition by foraging in different locations.

I would imagine that competition, if any were to happen, would be most noticeable around a concentrated food resource such as feeders. However, I have noticed that the smaller woodpeckers usually give way to larger species (e.g., downy and hairy) via displacement and with little if any aggressive interaction.
----- Original Message -----
From: BobnBernie
To: Dennis Paulson
Cc: tweeters at u.washington.edu
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 6:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Tweeters] flickers in groups


Hi Dennis and Tweeters. Thank you Dennis for the information. The writer states that they are not sure whether these activities pertain to courtship or are a part of defending territories. You contend that it is the wrong time of the year for courtship. I am not sure.

The first time we saw what we would describe as fencing duals as described in the text you provided was this time of year by a pair of pileated on a post in our yard. Within a half an hour of them leaving, we had three flickers sitting on our fence with two of them doing the same thing. The third was just watching. We were so surprised to see a repeat of what the pileated had done we assumed they were male and female and didn't verify. We did not have a camera at the time and have no pictures to review.

We too were surprised to see what we felt was a courtship activity at this time of year. We asked someone we thought was knowledgeable and were told that this was not out of the ordinary. We have heard from others since of their sightings at this time of the year as well.

I don't claim to understand territories for woodpeckers. What I have read makes it sound as if they are very protective of feeding territories. Especially pileated. We have downey, hairy, flicker and pileated coming to our feeders. We have had two or three of the types at the same time and/or multiples of each and have never seen a confrontation. We have 5 suet feeders, 3 are within a foot of each other. We have had flicker on all three at the same time.

At this time we have a male and a female pileated we see a couple times a week. We have not seen them at the same time as we have with others but they don't have a problem if another type of woodpecker is here with them. They might be more protective eating natural food but I can only judge by what I see here.

Is there normally competition between the species?

Bob Meyer
Renton WA
Mailto:BobnBernie at comcast.net
----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Paulson
To: BobnBernie
Cc: tweeters at u.washington.edu
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 2:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Tweeters] flickers in groups


Hi, Bob and tweeters.

I've seen the "dancing" behavior many times in my yard, but I've also seen it recently so assumed it wasn't involved in courtship at this time of year. Here's the account of agonistic behavior in flickers from the Birds of North America account by William S. Moore (1995):

Both sexes defend breeding territories and mates aggressively. Agonistic behavior is highly ritualized in flicker ?dance.? Typically, 2 birds of same sex pair off in mock ?fencing duels,? using their bills as ?foils,? while a member of the opposite sex looks on. Fencing duels rarely result in physical contact. This dance is prevalent during early phases of the breeding cycle (territory establishment, pair formation, and nest-site selection), but is also seen infrequently and at lower intensities at other times (Short 1982). Displays that comprise the dance are clearly agonistic (Noble 1936) and function in territorial defense, but territorial establishment and pair formation are so integrated in flickers that these displays may also play a role in pair formation; this remains poorly understood. Typically, 2 birds of the same sex face one another on a branch with their bills held at a slightly upward angle (about 30? from horizontal). Each bird quickly swings its head back and forth and bobs it up and down, such that the bill appears to trace a circular or Figure-8 pattern in the air (Kilham 1959, Lawrence 1966, Short 1972). The swinging and bobbing give the appearance of a mechanically animated toy, and are usually accompanied by in-rhythm Wicka Calls from both dancers. The red nuchal patch is usually erected in Yellow-shafted Flickers. Intensity of the dances varies greatly: the dance of 2 birds (same sex) is likely to have relatively low intensity and may even be silent, but the arrival of a third bird (opposite sex) immediately intensifies both the dance and the Wicka accompaniment. In very intense interactions, which are common, the dancers flick their wings and spread or rotate their tails such that the yellow, or red, ventral surfaces of the flight feathers are clearly visible to the opponent. Bursts of dancing and Wicka-calling might last 5?10 s, followed by a 30-s period of quiescence, followed by another burst of dancing where all participants seem compelled to join in. Bouts may last several minutes and may be joined and rejoined over a period of many hours. I have observed sustained series of dance bouts go on essentially all day, involving the same participants. Variation in the dance is substantial: the apparent context, number of participants, location, intensity, duration, whether the wings and tail are spread, whether Wickas accompany animation, pattern traced by bill, etc., can all vary. No data are available that demonstrate the range of variation, nor are the meaning of the variation and the component behaviors, themselves, understood.

Here is another account of this from the same publication, under "Behavior":

Courtship and Agonistic Displays. Difficult to distinguish because courtship and territorial defense are integrated behaviors. Flicker dance is a complex of threat displays but seems to function in courtship as well because it is intensified between 2 members of same sex when a member of opposite sex arrives and looks on (see Agonistic Behavior, above). Also, low-intensity dances accompanied by soft Wicka Calls occur between members of a pair. Ritualized tapping occurs between male and female as they choose a nest site and could be considered a courtship behavior (see Sounds: nonvocal sounds, above). Mate guarding not reported.

Interestingly, in light of what started this thread, here's what he says about sociality in flickers:

Not social. Loosely structured foraging groups sometimes observed during migration and winter; e.g., Kilham (1983) observed 20 foraging together in a corn field thinly covered with snow. I observed 10 males foraging together on a park lawn in Detroit, MI, in early Apr; individuals were never closer than 3?4 m, but all were within a 25-m radius.

It's too bad the Birds of North America series is so expensive, as it's something that would be worthwhile in anyone's library.

Dennis
----
Dennis Paulson
1724 NE 98 St.
Seattle, WA 98115
206-528-1382

On Oct 27, 2005, at 2:09 PM, BobnBernie wrote:


The following is from Bent's life history notes from this site. It is about a quarter of the way down the page under Courtship. At the end, the writer claims that there was never any suggestion of combat or intimidation. There are more dance observations in the text following this excerpt.

http://birdzilla.com/omnibus.asp?strType=Bent&strTitle=Northern+Flicker&strURL=northern_flicker.htm

Courtship: The courtship of the flicker is a lively and spectacular performance, noisy, full of action, and often ludicrous, as three or more birds of both sexes indulge in their comical dancing, nodding, bowing, and swaying motions, or chase each other around the trunk or through the branches of a tree. From the time of Audubon to the present day, many observers have noted audi described the curious antics of this star performer. But I prefer to quote first from some extensive notes recently contributed by Francis H. Allen, as follows: "The courtship of the flicker is an elaborate and somewhat puzzling performance. Two birds face each other on the branch of a tree or cling side by side, though at a little distance apart, on the trunk, and spread their tails and jerk their heads about in a sort of weaving motion, frequently uttering a note that is peculiar to this performance, a wick-up or weekup. The head motion is a series of backward jerks with the bill pointing up at an angle of perhaps 600 and the head at the same time swinging from side to side. Sometimes a short, low wuck is uttered from time to time during the performance. These bouts occur not only between male and female, but frequently between two males or two females.

"In April 1934, for more than a week I saw a trio of flickers about my. house. Invariably the two females went through courtship antics together, while the male fed on the ground nearby, apparently completely indifferent to them. One of the females was much more active than the other, which usually kept a stiff pose with head drawn in, only occasionally responding with feeble head-waggings. At no time did the active female use any other display than the head-wagging, and there was never any suggestion of combat or intimidation.

Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Paulson" <dennispaulson at comcast.net>
To: <tweeters at u.washington.edu>
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Tweeters] flickers in groups

> Tweeters, thanks for all the posts on those flocking flickers. Since I
> wrote, I had 5 come in together to the feeders. They are definitely
> attracted to the yard by the suet feeders; otherwise, they're in the
> ravine behind the house, although they do also come in, often singly,
> and search the ground for ants.
>
> I wonder if the "dance" that Bob Meyer's video shows might not have
> been aggressive posturing, which I see all the time when two birds show
> up at a feeder at the same time. Accompanying sounds are distinctive
> also. In fact, why wasn't it between the two females, rather than for
> an off-screen male? I've seen a lot of birds bob at each other that
> way, with spread tail; quite a display and usually at close range.
>
> One of my more interesting flicker experiences was one day when I was
> throwing peanuts out onto the lawn for the Steller's Jays. A flicker
> landed in the midst of them and immediately began hammering on a
> peanut, eventually demolishing the shell and pecking the nuts apart and
> swallowing them. For all the times flickers and jays are in the yard
> together, I've never seen a repeat of that action.
>
> Another interesting thing that flickers sometimes do is to feed from a
> cage feeder full of shelled sunflower pieces, not usually accessible to
> woodpeckers. The flicker merely inserts its barbed and sticky tongue
> through the mesh and pulls out the pieces and swallows them, like an
> anteater getting termites from a nest.
>
> About "intergrade" flickers: the red nape characteristic of
> Yellow-shafted Flicker has spread pretty much throughout at least
> northwestern populations of Red-shafted Flickers and probably shouldn't
> be considered a sign of intergradation any more. At least it doesn't
> mean that that flicker came from the zone of intergradation between the
> two subspecies. I have seen it a number of times in breeding flickers
> in Washington, far from the range of breeding Yellow-shafted.
>
> Dennis Paulson
> 1724 NE 98 St.
> Seattle, WA 98115
> 206-528-1382



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