Larry, Thank you. You posted while we were preparing this post after
checking with the county as to who pays taxes on that property.

The whole area at the mouth of the Cedar including the Kayak Club building
and pier is owned by the City of Renton and is a public park. Boeing owns
none of it. The fenced walkway is part of the park. Boeing owns the property
on the East side and Renton owns the property in the walkway and to the
West. The West fence is to keep people from meandering across the bridge and
being a hazard on the runway. Boeing has an easement over it to get their
aircraft to the Renton Airport. The fences are actually gates which are
repositioned to block the public when that occurs.

As others have stated, Boeing has no right to tell you that you can or
cannot aim you scope or camera at their buildings. This is where common
sense comes in. Even if you have the right, why do something that you know
upsets someone just because you can. If a bird we are tracking lands on
their building and we want to know what it is, we will look and take a
picture. If confronted by security, we will tell them nicely what we are
doing. If told we can't, we will nicely inform them of our rights.

Last Sunday we were at the mouth and a Boeing security guard came to the NW
corner of the Boeing property. We went over to the fence and talked with
him. We told him about the special gulls. He came through the nearby Boeing
employee security gate and looked with our scope. We also told him about the
Peregrine Falcon that has been landing on their building and that we have
looked at it long enough for an ID. He thanked us for the information and
went back to the plant.

Things seem to be a lot simpler when you try to get along.

The Boeing ponds were mentioned in one of the posts They use to be owned by
Boeing. They are now property of the City of Kent as a wetland/storm water
management wildlife recreation area. Boeing still owns the property with the
small pond in the SE corner of the area. The access road/walkway and
everything inside it belongs to Kent. Taking pictures of birds in the small
pond from the walkway is legal but because you are facing Boeing property it
might it might upset some people.

We have been to Boeing Ponds numerous times. We have never had a problem
with Boeing Security because we use common sense and don't go out of our way
to antagonize them.

We were there last week and had a Peregrine guarding and trying to feed from
perches on Boeing property. We looked long enough for an ID and then pointed
the scope the other way. It chased away two Red-tail when we started on the
walkway and then perched on a Boeing building. We continued to the SE corner
where we were watching a Pin-tailed Duck fly over. The Peregrine tried to
take it out of the air and then off the water in the small Boeing owned
pond. It then sat on a power pole inside the plant. He was still there when
we left. There were the least amount of birds we have ever seen at Boeing
Ponds and wonder if the Falcon was the reason?

Bob & Bernie Meyer
Renton
Mailto:BobnBernie at Comcast.net




----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Conway" <robin_birder at hotmail.com>
To: <linusq at worldnet.att.net>; <tweeters at u.washington.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 1:11 PM
Subject: RE: Fw: [Tweeters] Photography / Birding / Scoping Security Issues


> Thanks Carol. The responses sent to me personally concerning this have
> been nothing but vile. Here are excerpts from some of my favorites.
>
> "You are nothing but a tool of the fasciest(sic) military industrial
> complex and the idiotic and paranoid governmental officials"
>
> "Please don't tell me where and where not to point my camera - or I'll be
> pointing something else at you" (I considered forwarding that one to
> police).
>
> "What a bunch of bullsh*t". I have every right to shoot pitchers(sic) of
> whatever bildings(sic) I want. Your(sic) a sick **cking commie.
>
> Here's my final word on the subject. Substitute "my house", "my
> business", "my childs school" or "the local playground" for "Boeing
> Facilities" in the sentence "Don't point your camera at Boeing Facilities
> as this may raise security concerns and cause Boeing Security to
> investigate". A little different? Wouldn't you actually be outraged if
> someone was pointing a camera at your house/business/kid's
> school/playground and you called the police to investigate and they did
> nothing? But of course this IS evil Boeing that, as Carol kindly points
> out, is trying to accomodate birders and others by allowing access through
> their property to connect two public facilities. The point is that there
> is a fine line between right and privelege and I see more and more bad
> behavior by birders lately in incidents abusing public rights of way,
> illegal parking, trespassing and even harassing wildlife to get the next
> good shot or locate a bird. Try being a little self righteous and a
> little more thoughful and you'll help everyone out.
>
> And, as Carol points out, this is not just about national security issues,
> it is also about protecting intellectual property and other things. The
> real threat that Boeing deals with is Industrial Espionage - it is real,
> active, and a true threat to their business - they have as much right to
> protect that as you have to photograph from public spaces - balance and
> common sense are so much nicer than rabid overreaction - no?
>
> Cheers and excellent birding to all
>
> Rob
>
> Rob Conway
> Newcastle and Preston, WA
>
> robin_birder at hotmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
>>From: "Lynn Schulz" <linusq at worldnet.att.net>
>>To: "Tweeters" <tweeters at u.washington.edu>
>>Subject: Fw: [Tweeters] Photography / Birding / Scoping Security Issues
>>Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 08:23:39 -0800
>>
>>Hi Tweets:
>>I'm retired from Boeing. They have legitimate security concerns. We
>>CROSS BOEING PROPERTY and their runway in order to get to the viewing
>>platform at the Kayak Ctr at the mouth of the Cedar River. Boeing is also
>>allowing the City of Renton to build a boardwalk from Coulon Park to the
>>mouth of the Cedar River right in front of their big Boeing buildings (at
>>least this is proposed for the future). Their security people are usually
>>pretty nice, and things change there all the time due to recent security
>>alerts. This is not just about industrial secrets.
>>Lets be nice, say ok, and calmly walk away, so that we can continue to
>>access the Kayak Center pier?
>>Yours, Carol Schulz, Des Moines, linusq at att.net
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: carenp
>>To: Tweeters at u.washington.edu
>>Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 10:32 PM
>>Subject: [Tweeters] Photography / Birding / Scoping Security Issues
>>
>>
>>one of the things i carry with me EVERYWHERE when i photograph is what in
>>essence is a "bill of rights" created by a fellow photographer who just
>>happens to be a top-notch attorney at law... the website is located at
>>http://www.krages.com/phoright.htm . the website includes this quote:
>> "...As the [ACLU] flyer states, there are not very many legal
>> restrictions on what can be photographed when in public view. Most
>> attempts at restricting photography are done by lower-level security and
>> law enforcement officials acting way beyond their authority. Note that
>> neither the Patriot Act nor the Homeland Security Act have any provisions
>> that restrict photography..."
>>
>>in other words, if you are on boeing property and they ask you to stop,
>>they are well within their rights to do require you to stop. if you are at
>>gene coulon, or the cedar river outflow, or any other public location,
>>including standing on sidewalks in front of <any> building, they have ZERO
>>legal right to stop you... they may call the police to press charges. if
>>so, let them. wrongful detention and harrassment can be punished so it
>>will not happen again.
>>
>>support your rights by knowing what they are, then standing up for them.
>>the world will thank you.
>>00 carenhttp://www.parkgallery.orggeorge davis creek, north forkps: i'm
>>sure mr victor and company are probably wishing this subject would go
>>away. anyone wishing to discuss it in private, feel free to email me IN
>>private... i'll do my best to sit on my hands in public as long as
>>someone doesn't make a statement requiring rebuttal for being Way
>>Off-Base... i promise :)
>>
>>
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
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>>Tweeters at u.washington.edu
>>http://mailman1.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/tweeters
>>
>>
>>
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