Subject: [Tweeters] Even more on navigable rivers
Date: Jun 29 21:27:15 2007
From: Rachel - RachelWL at msn.com


A clarification for Ed Level:

I didn't say all streams were navigable (they aren't), just that all
navigable streams are open to public access. Since the laws were
written regarding passage of freight canoes, it's obvious that the laws
are rather old. Apparently, at the time, the state felt that the needs
of commerce, in the form of freight-carrying boats and their operators,
outweighed the property rights of those owning land bordering the
rivers. This may be an outdated concept, but it's still the law.
Fishermen legally can, and do, wade along rivers that pass through
private property. In this case, the law IS simple: if they are in the
bed of a navigable river, they are on public property, and as long as
they stay in the river, they are not trespassing. Property owners that
try to prevent people from wading the river have no legal standing. The
Washington law regarding navigable rivers does not refer to lakes or
saltwater shorelines, however, so the situation is different there.
Lakes and saltwater shorelines definitely can be private property.

Is anyone familiar with the laws in California regarding access to
beaches? All ocean beaches in California are absolutely public, to the
extreme displeasure of the rich people who own beachfront property. The
most they can do is keep people from crossing their property to get to
the beach. If these people want to walk from a public access point to a
place on the beach that is in front of private property, there is no
legal way to prevent them. There are books available with maps of all
the public access points. Though the original rationales for the
Washington river laws and the California beach laws might have been
different, the end results seem similar.

Note that I am not advocating trespass or ignoring the property rights
of landowners. No matter how much I want to see a bird, I will NEVER
cross a fence line or ignore a "no trespassing" sign to do it. I am a
firm believer in asking permission to enter private property, and I
agree that a little politeness and consideration goes a long way.
However, I do not think I should be intimidated by landowners into
staying off of public property, just because it borders private
property.

Rachel

-----Original Message-----
From: tweeters-bounces at mailman1.u.washington.edu
[mailto:tweeters-bounces at mailman1.u.washington.edu] On Behalf Of Ed
Level
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 4:49 PM
To: tweeters at u.washington.edu
Subject: [Tweeters] Reecer Creek Warning


Re Roger Leed;

Remember the open range? Therefore, vacant private forest or
range land is generally available for public use unless posted
otherwise.


If you see a sign along a road in central or eastern Washington that
says "Open Range," don't assume

that you have a right to enter abutting lands. Don't assume that private
lands are "generally available

for public use"; they are not. One using them without permission is
still a trespasser, regardless of

absence of criminal trespass. Trespasser status is important; if you
fall in a hole on trespassed land, for example.

Re Rachel Lawson:

If a fisherman (or birder) is wading or floating in the
actual stream, the landowner

cannot prevent him/her from passing through the private
property.

I have trouble with this. The State may own navigable waters, but in
many shoreline situations it does not own the bed of the body y of
water. Not all navigable waters are owned by the state; don't figure
that you have a right to wade or otherwise utilize waters of a private
lake even though it may be navigable. . Obviously one walking on a
private tide lands at low tide is trespassing; I don't see how walking
(wading) on the same land at high tide ceases to be a trespass. Not all
streams are navigable, even though the state or other public entity may
own the water flowing in it..

Conclusions:

1. Don't assume that the law is simple in any situation.

2. Don't enter the private lands of another without permission.

Ed Level. Olympia, WA