This is a fascinating discussion on gulls. The finer points (and not so finer points) of gull identification always make me realize how much more I have to learn as a birder. That's what I like about places like Tweeters, I can always find something new to learn, something that will make me stretch my intellect. I think the intellectual challenge of birding is what appeals to most of us. It would be tempting, I suppose, to just say, "oh, gulls are so hard, I wish people wouldn't post about them because they are so hard for a new birder to learn" but I prefer to think of gulls as a higher level of birding that I can aspire to attain. It makes me want to search out good books about gull identification, and even links to websites that discuss such things! So please keep posting about these difficult gull id's, because I want to learn all I can about every aspect of birding, even the difficult parts!!