Hello all,

My questions got some folks to really think about how and why they post information as they do. For the most part, the repsonses can be broken down 3 ways: I called it that when I was growing up, and danged if I'll change now; thank you from a newbie who is trying to figure out where all these places are; and some folks who had helpful suggestions about how we might, as a birding community, be able to come up with a better solution.

Unfortunately, a few people really have started to act like jerks in their responses. That is uncalled for. If you don't have anything to add other than "there are too many posts on this subject", well, your post didn't help anyone. For the most part, this is a positive forum, and I was trying to get some positive feedback going. My apologies to everyone for those folks who came across heavy-handed in their responses (I'm sure we can all figure out who they are).

All of that said, I will continue personally to call the Union Bay Natural Area by that name, and following up with the initials UBNA. If I think about it, I will add an (aka Montlake Fill) to the body so folks have no question.

Since this is very similar to the 4-letter AOU code discussions that happen every 6 months or so, I would merely ask that others do similar. We all pretty much decided that if you write the name out, and then use the abbreviation afterwards, specifying what the abbreviation stands for, then those of us who use the codes as shorthand can do so. That made sense, and is a good compromise. Can we not make a similar compromise here? Please?

Thanks again everyone for your (mostly) helpful and thoughtful responses. I knew that there might be a little angst from my query, but fortunately, most folks know how to handle their caffeine. Cheers, and good birding!

Brett A. Wolfe
Seattle, WA
m_lincolnii at yahoo.com


dave templeton <crazydave65 at inbox.com> wrote:
scott:

i don't recall anyone remotely suggesting there should be some required geographic content to a post. what's being debated, in my estimation, is transmitting enough information so a post is useful to the largest number of folks *without unduly burdening* the sender. nor do i think the issue is people asking for dessert with the free lunch. from my viewpoint, if the sender uses some shorthand i don't know, then i ignore the post.

if i sense the direction of recent posts, the idea is to try to figure out how and where to maintain on the internet a collection of directions, name cross references and perhaps maps so posters can use whatever terminology they will. in short, i don't think your posited sole alternative is even on the table, nor should it be.

regards,

t
fall city

crazydave65atinboxdotcom

> -----Original Message-----
> From: scottratkinson at hotmail.com
> Sent: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:11:53 -0700
> To: tweeters at u.washington.edu
> Subject: [Tweeters] Montlake Fill & place names
>
>
> Tweeters:
>
> So many have contributed on these, I think it's time to throw in my two
> cents...
>
> I can understand that some prefer the Union Bay name because from a sheer
> marketing perspective it is more appealing perhaps. But I'm with Gene:
> (a) the Union Bay Natural Area seems a major misnomer, since this is
> highly altered habitat, with resultant flora (and some fauna) being quite
> adventive; and (b) the Montlake Fill seems a more precise name, since
> Union Bay suggests to me a larger area, including areas south of the fill
> (along Union Bay). The fact that the area was once a dump should not
> deter anyone from birding there, in fact it's a cause for celebration
> that a former waste site could be so successfully converted into a super
> birding spot. Like others, I recall birding the Fill frequently in the
> early 80s, during UW days, and have many memories associated with the 'ol
> Fill...
>
> And then on directions: I guess what disturbs me the most is the
> prevalent "I exist, therefore you owe me" attitude of so many. I guess
> it's missed on them that some contributors don't always have the time to
> give a georgraphic treatise on what county, what turns, what pulloffs,
> etc.--and where do you draw the line on geographic tips? Some visitors
> probably need even more info that just a county or site name. Let's also
> remember that the vast majority of readership is probably not apt to give
> chase to every bird; therefore those people who want to give chase and
> don't have knowledge of locality should simply contact the person posting
> (I have received many such queries over time) and my general impression
> is that there are few that would deny such a query for info. Instead of
> looking a contributing (who has taken their own time to post) gift horse
> in the mouth, why not be grateful that we have a medium like Tweeters,
> and that at least you have a tip on which to start?
>
> The alternative is to force strict georgraphical posting requirements,
> censoring out those that don't comply with same; in which case it is most
> likely that several constributors, including myself, will simply stop
> posting...
>
> Scott Atkinson
> Lake Stevens
> mail to: scottratkinson at hotmail.com
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