Oh, I agree that the new super duper telescope is in the best interest of the nation. But I like to be obstinate every now and then. Still and all, a better site would have been on a mountain top in Afghanistan, where the atmosphere is nice and clear (I assume). Maybe they could move the UN Headquarters there too.

When I was stationed in Korea, the mountain tops were uglified by microwave and other kinds of sites or stuctures; and I thought at least in the USA our mountain tops are uncluttered and natural-looking. But now that is increasingly not the case - at least in SE Arizona. It might be more acceptable if there were cocktail lounges up there with cable cars to get there - such as in Europe (ha ha).

Phil Hotllen
Bellingham, WA
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Mark Egger <m.egger at comcast.net>
> Wayne et al.,
>
> Does anyone have any recent data as to how the Mt. Graham squirrels
> are doing following the development & construction of the telescope
> complex? I followed this issue with interest when it was a "hot
> topic" in the 80's. I wrote letters in support of the conservationist
> position, but I did feel great conflict, as I'm also very interested
> in Astronomy, and this complex really is a state of the art facility
> that will greatly increase our knowledge of the universe. I've
> "secretly" hoped that the telescopes could be constructed without
> harming the squirrels and the other considerable natural resources
> (it is also a valuable area for native plants) on the mountain.
>
> As to it being a "sacred" mountain, I'm reminded of a snip from an
> old Firesign Theater skit (for those who remember the Firesign
> Theater), in which a Native American confronts a white "settler". The
> newcomer says something like, "Mind if we put our antennas up on
> yonder hill?" The Native American replies, "That's our sacred
> mountain." To which the settler replies, "Well, this is our sacred
> antenna!"
>
> Silly humor aside, though, IF (and I grant this may be a huge if) the
> planning and construction AND subsequent management of the site were
> all done well, I think it may not be unreasonable to assume that this
> major scientific research site might be able to coexist with the
> natural environment and maybe even with the mountain gods! On the top
> of Mauna Kea in Hawaii there is a major telescope site, along with an
> active shrine to Pele!
>
> Mark
>
>
> >Richard,
> >
> >The Mount Graham telescope complex was built despite the fact that it
> >destroyed some of the critical habitat for the Mount Graham red squirrel, an
> >endangered subspecies listed under the ESA. The telescope was also opposed
> >by local Native American tribes, who considered the site sacred. The
> >proponents of the telescope were given an exemption from the Endangered
> >Species Act, the National Environmental Policy Act, the National Forests
> >Management Act, and other legislation to build the telescope.
> >
> >NO development is so important that it should be exempted from the ESA or
> >NEPA!
> >
> >Even as a Canadian, I am well aware of the controversy over this project,
> >which has been going on since the 1980s. Richard, you should stay
> >better-informed on conservation issues.
> >
> >Wayne C. Weber
> >Delta, BC
> >contopus at telus.net
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: tweeters-bounces at mailman1.u.washington.edu
> >[mailto:tweeters-bounces at mailman1.u.washington.edu] On Behalf Of Richard
> >Carlson
> >Sent: April-06-08 6:13 AM
> >To: vogelfreund at comcast.net; tweeters at u.washington.edu
> >Subject: Re: [Tweeters] mixed feelings re new telescope site
> >
> >The Chickadees are doing fine, as are the rest of the
> >birds on Mt. Graham.
> >
> >So what exactly is wrong with building the greatest
> >telescope on the planet to maybe unravel a few
> >mysteries of the universe??
> >
> >RCC
> >
> >
> >
> >--- vogelfreund at comcast.net wrote:
> >
> >> April 5, 2008
> >>
> >> I just saw clip on tv news about the new giant
> >> telescope on Mt. Graham in SE Arizona. That was an
> >> ideal camping and birding retreat for me when I was
> >> stationed at Ft. Huachuca, just to get away from
> >> people up on the cool peak at 10,500 feet above sea
> >> level (although I didn't get there very often). Now
> >> I see it's been turned into a global hotspot for
> >> astronomers and probably public amusement. It is the
> >> southern most point in Arizona, for example, where
> >> Mountain Chickadees are normally found. Just across
> >> the gap to the south, where the Interstate Highway
> >> runs, the Mexican Chickadee takes over
> >> (Chiricahuas).
> >>
> >> It reminds me of when I was 15 years old and moved
> >> down to Florida from Wisconsin. Just when I
> >> discovered the existence of a wild unspoiled Florida
> >> beach known as Cape Canaveral State Park, the
> >> federal government confiscated the area to build the
> >> (now Kennedy) Space Center, etc. Oh well...
> >>
> >> Phil Hotlen
> >> Bellingham, WA
>
>
> --
> Mark Egger
> Seattle, WA
> USA
> mailto:m.egger at comcast.net
>
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