Subject: [Tweeters] Re: Case not closed
Date: Nov 6 15:17:42 2008
From: Blake Iverson - coopershwk at hotmail.com





This is a very
interesting topic and I have not been able to go back and find all posts but I
did find one of Dennis Paulson's and I agree with it 100%.



Like some individuals have mentioned; there are certain species that show a
higher awareness of emotions from their own species and others. Those with more
intelligence, Corvids and Parrots for example, come to mind. I have had parrots
all my life, I have seen hundreds of examples of parrots showing awareness of
their surroundings and exhibiting certain emotions (none however, at the human
level). I think it's silly to suggest a barn swallow would be mourning the
death of its mate. There are plenty of scientific observations that have shown,
as Dennis mentioned, these birds are driven more by instinct than emotion
(including the examples of the robins, cliff swallows, lions, and waterfowl/ducks).
The quick opportunity to pass on their genes is hard to pass up. A barn swallow
on the ground is a barn swallow on the ground to them. They may become confused
at the lack of response by the bird when trying to court and then copulate but
that doesn't slow them down.



I think the term "horniness" is used out of context. Horniness in my
opinion is a term used for humans by humans, not for animals. Humans have the
drive to have sex for two reasons. The instinct to want to have offspring, and
the fact that it feels good and is fun (horniness).



Most animals don't have the second drive, they don't mate for the fun of it
(except possibly primates and dolphins, but that's not my strong area). It's purely
instinctual to pass on strong genes to ensure the species survives. I
understand where you are coming from when you say "...everyone should be
more scientific and careful about admitting that in many cases we aren?t
exactly sure what any given animal is thinking or not thinking at any given
moment." But, I think we need to give ourselves some credit on our
intelligence and say that we have a pretty good idea on what goes on with
animals. We've been studying them for a long time; I think if barn swallows
were more like parrots when it came to emotions, we would have found that out
by now.



You're right, swallows tend to stick around longer with their offspring than
say starlings, but they aren't trying to pump out 3 broods a year either. If a
baby doesn't come back to the nest at night, mom and dad swallow won't think
anything of it. They don't intentionally stay longer with their offspring
because they are concerned for their welfare. Instinct tells them to stay
longer to ensure they survive and know how to find food etc. They are trained to recognize danger, and their reactions teach their offspring to react the same way to an accipiter, falcon, corvid, whatever. Once this is accomplished,
if they migrate together than they do, if they get separated than that is how
it goes. They don't comprehend why their instincts tell them to stay with their
offspring longer than a starling. We would understand but we are humans, they
are swallows. It's PURELY instinctual.



I agree with Dennis on his statement "I think necrophilia is quite an
inappropriate term to apply to this [and] I doubt if any animal would attempt
to mate with another individual that it 'knew' was dead..." Again, an
animal only mates for the purpose of passing on genes for future offspring.
Necrophilia is what it means but why would anything (including humans) perform
this act intentionally except for all other reasons but to produce offspring?
This act is not done intentionally by animals for emotional reasons. Dennis
also mentions the fact that it is more than likely very difficult for an animal
to judge and comprehend death. That's at our level of thinking, not animals.
Lastly I'll end agreeing with Dennis's last paragraph. There are many animals in this world that kill other offspring to naturally force the female to become sexually active again. The males take advantage, mate, and now they one more set of offspring. Lions, ducks, swallows, and many other animals do this. It would be silly to think so harshly against these animals for what they do.
Blake IversonBothell, WAcoopershwk at hotmail.com







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