Kevin Purcell wrote

<< I am careful about what I read. I also check the reputation of the author too. So lets check the authors reputation in this case, see what he said and see how it might apply in this raptor ID. >>

No ones reputation is beyond reproach, and no one is incapable of error. Your welcome to pass along my observations to him so he can make a correction, but I rather suspect he will not accept the affront to his ego.

<< What's that phrase you used: "may be grossly under-informed"? >>

If you'll reread what I wrote, I was quite a bit more specific than that. I dont doubt this guys credentials [well, not much], even though I am not familiar with him. The fact is, I dont read many bird watching books. I spend that time instead out in the field.

What I said is that he may be grossly under-informed on this point, and he was - and is.

<< You shouldn't dismiss a set of well written observations just because you haven't seen a particular book written by an author about whose reputation you have no clue especially one meant to deal with probabilistically IDing birds in jizz fashion (or "Cape May School of Birding" style) that applies in exactly this case of a BVD from a poor photo with a minimal amount of info. IMHO, at least. >>

I didnt dismiss it because I hadnt read it. I dismissed it because it was contrary to what I have seen sharp shinned hawks do with my own eyes. Sharpshinns in my hand when I was helping a friend do some bird banding, and sharp shinned hawks that were being held for falconry by friends of mine. I have never worked with a sharpshinned hawk myself.

I have also seen wild sharpshins crane their neck after they had harrassed my goshawk.

<< " ... and it also frequently cranes it's neck which is something a Sharpie can never do." >>

Your quite correct, he said that right there in black in and white. And its still completely contrary to what I have seen with my own two eyes, several times, and it is FACTUaLLY INCORRECT.

I wonder how to reconcile this statement of his with the fact that I have held sharpshins horizontally with their chest down and had them turn their head 180 degrees and stare me in the eye while I was looming over them working to get them out of a net.

Upon reflection, I understand how he came to that conclusion however. Sharpshinned hawks like to hold their head "lower" than coopers hawks do. Goshawks generally like to carry their head "low" as well, giving them a "bowling pin" appearance most of the time. But thats a matter of preferred posture, not ability.

It is CERTAINLY possible for a sharpshin to crane its neck around. I have watched them sleep that way, several times. These were all captive sharpshinned hawks, where ID was NOT in dispute.

In fact, here are two photos (correctly identified) of a sharp shin "craning" its neck in a manor this author of yours claims to be impossible:
http://library.thinkquest.org/07aug/00180/sharpshinnedhawk.htm[1]
http://home.earthlink.net/~wrenworks/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/img_6349_sharp-shinned_hawk_2.jpg[2]

I found plenty of other photos in a quick Bing search, but most of the rest I was less than 100% certain of the id of the bird. One strikingly similar in pose to the grainy one posted here a few days ago, is very likely to be correctly identified as a sharpie is here (could be a male coopers hawk though):
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=sharp+shinned+hawk&form=QB&qs=AS&pq=sharp+shinne#focal=050b0400e11981824f1bc08a73fa420a&furl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.goldeneagleaudubon.org%2Fimages%2Fbirdimages%2F32thumb.jpg[3]

<< And a little plug for the book. It's a rather different book to almost all field guides. Too large to take into the field but very good for prepring for a target bird. You can find the Field Guide Companion in our local library or secondhand books stores (like Half-Price books with remaindered copies) or online. Read the reviews of it they're interesting too (some find his language too florid but I often find it memorable ""). I find it helpful. Others might too. >>

As field guide books go, that looks to be an excellent one. But its got at least one factual error in it, and probably a few more. Thats not exactly a surprise, I've never seen a book get everything right, especially one with this sort of scope.

Upon reflection, thats a very unusual statement to begin with. To claim that two very closely related species of birds would be seperated by one being able to crane its neck around and one unable to is quite an extraordinary claim. Sharpshinned hawks are definately not simply tiny coopers hawks, but they are FAR more similar across the board than different.

<< That's my 2000? contribution. >>

Well, its nice to see your not overly modest about the value of your contribution. 80)

No worries, please believe what you wish. Thats no skin off neck. And I rather doubt it makes one beans worth of difference to the original poster wether he saw a coopers hawk or a sharpshinn. They can call it anything they like, and the world wont change one whit.

What do I really know, I've just been spending the last decade+ handling accipiters on a daily basis.

All the best,

Geoff Hirschi
Master falconer
Snohomihs, Wa

Links:
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[1] http://library.thinkquest.org/07aug/00180/sharpshinnedhawk.htm
[2] http://home.earthlink.net/~wrenworks/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/img_6349_sharp-shinned_hawk_2.jpg
[3] http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=sharp+shinned+hawk&amp;form=QB&amp;qs=AS&amp;pq=sharp+shinne#focal=050b0400e11981824f1bc08a73fa420a&amp;furl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.goldeneagleaudubon.org%2Fimages%2Fbirdimages%2F32thumb.jpg