Subject: [Tweeters] Bird Banding - debate continues
Date: Apr 6 15:13:57 2012
From: Joel Haas - haas.joel at mindspring.com


Thank you, Dennis and AMEN!

Joel E. Haas
haas.joel at mindspring.com


On 4/6/2012 11:16 AM, Dennis Paulson wrote:
> Don,
>
> You asked for further comments from "everyone," but it doesn't sound
> like you are very receptive to the majority of comments that have been
> posted.
>
> A bunch of people have now posted about how bird banders approach
> their activities, with the thought of the birds' welfare uppermost in
> their minds. I have banded birds and know lots of banders, and I know
> that's the case.
>
> If there are a few uncaring banders, please do not criticize
> bird-banding because of them (I'm speaking to everyone here, not just
> Don). People are responsible or not; irresponsibility is not a
> characteristic of particular activities. Why do we end up castigating
> the small numbers of irresponsible birders, irresponsible
> photographers, irresponsible bird feeders, irresponsible cat owners,
> ad infinitum, when we could be praising the responsible ones? Positive
> reinforcement, please!
>
> To say that because only one banded dipper was found again in a
> banding study means that all the others /died because of their bands/
> is the worst kind of fear-mongering, based on no evidence whatsoever
> and akin to the stuff you see on political news and commentaries and
> blogs that try to influence voters. Appeal to their emotions, and
> you've got 'em. And be sure to end your sentences with "And that is an
> absolute fact!" whether you really know what you are talking about or
> not. I guess you didn't believe the people who sent you examples of
> successful studies on dippers that used banded birds.
>
> You wrote "If a bird is banded and never seen again, then it has to be
> that the bird died because of being banded and it cannot be disputed
> because there is no evidence to the contrary." This is a blatant
> misconception. Banded birds being recaptured or resighted is entirely
> dependent on the situation. Many birds are banded in migration, when
> they are on their way somewhere else. Just-fledged birds are often
> banded, and they are about to leave for a new territory. Indeed the
> handling may prompt them to leave that immediate spot but in no way
> affects their survival. And of course some of them suffer natural
> mortality, always high on small birds.
>
> The placement of words in sentences is important. You could have said
> "not all banders and researchers will report any death," and instead
> you said "all banders and researchers will not report any death." I
> hope that was a slip of the pen and not intentional.
>
> I would like to make a request for you to simmer down on this subject.
> It's devolving into an animal-rights vs science argument, and that has
> happened again and again over the years and is unlikely to be
> resolved. Are you keeping this going because you think you can stop
> the banding of dippers for research? You've already been told that a
> band on a dipper is no more dangerous to the bird than a band on a
> tree-living species, and that seems entirely sensible to me. I don't
> quite understand your motivation here. Do you want to raise a ground
> swell of objection to all bird banding?
>
> I am sending this to all of tweeters, because the discussion has been
> online. I apologize to the list owners for being confrontational, but
> every once in a while, I feel such a response coming on.
>
> Dennis Paulson
>
> On Apr 6, 2012, at 10:13 AM, Don Wallace wrote:
>
>> Hi Folks,
>>
>>
>>
>> I have gotten a good number of responses to my post, and I would like
>> to keep getting more.
>> The responses have been on both side of the fence. Those that have
>> been for banding birds mostly say that there is no harm to the birds.
>>
>> My response to that is: all banders and researchers will not report
>> any death caused by netting or banding.
>>
>> If a bird is banded and never seen again, then it has to be that the
>> bird died because of being banded and it cannot be disputed because
>> there is no evidence to the contrary. So if every person that bands a
>> bird can account for all the birds where a bouts, then they should do
>> so, otherwise those missing birds have died because of being banded,
>> only the lucky survive. And that is an absolute fact!
>>
>> I was sent a link to a website where one person has banded 50
>> dippers, but can only account for one. 49 died just to watch one grow
>> old. How fortunate is that?
>>
>>
>> Keep the comments coming, I would like to hear from everyone.
>>
>> Don
>> don at e-picturebookdesigners.com_______________________________________________
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>
> -----
> Dennis Paulson
> 1724 NE 98 St.
> Seattle, WA 98115
> 206-528-1382
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>
>
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