Subject: [Tweeters] RE: thistle feeder question & Pine Siskins
Date: Feb 22 11:27:40 2012
From: Dennis Paulson - dennispaulson at comcast.net


Katie, you mentioned juncos and Song Sparrows, so I should add to what Richard wrote that the native sparrows, juncos, towhees, etc., of the family Emberizidae don't seem to suffer epidemics like the finches of the family Fringillidae (Pine Siskins and Evening Grosbeaks seem especially susceptible). Whether it is because the latter are much more social or because there is some resistance in the emberizids, I don't know. Perhaps there is literature on this. But in any case I think that many people have bird seed on the ground below feeders that is difficult to avoid or clean up, and it is taken by birds such as juncos and Song Sparrows all the time. I have never noticed a diminution of such birds, resident in my yard through the winter, nor any signs of lethargy or other problems, and I think it is fairly certain that birds other than finches aren't getting sick from being fed.

I can only add that you should wash your socks before you turn them into bird feeders . . .

Dennis

On Feb 22, 2012, at 10:50 AM, Messick, Katie wrote:

> Thanks for the advice, Richard. The feeder is specific to thistle, but on the advice of others I think I'm going to switch to the sock type. I have domes over my feeders and the seed in them stays dry most of the time. I'm happy to report that I have very active birds in my yard, with not a lethargic one among them. The spilled seed is accumulating underneath a slatted bench, and I haven't seen any finches crawl under there, but I'll go out right now and clean it up because the juncos and occasional song sparrow do hop around there.
>
> If I see any lethargic finches I'll remove the thistle feeder pronto. It would be interesting to know the geographic distribution of lethargic siskin reports. I've never had siskins in my yard or heard them in my neighborhood (Wallingford) before last month (although house finches abound and goldfinches are occasional), and now we seem to have about seven siskins, or at least that's the most I've heard/seen at one time. Any chance that the outbreak is entirely or primarily in areas with larger populations/actual habitat? (I'm working on habitat, but we moved here 10 years ago and my conifers are now about 15 feet tall...).
>
> Thanks to everyone who offered advice on thistle feeders -- the majority think sock feeders rotated and cleaned are the best and cheapest option.
>
> Katie Messick
> From: Pterodroma at aol.com [Pterodroma at aol.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 8:46 PM
> To: Messick, Katie
> Subject: Re: thistle feeder question & Pine Siskins
>
> Katie, please see added comment specific to you the "P.S". at end below.
>
> Sock feeders work great ...in DRYER climates. Nylon and don't rot and little to no spillage. If you've got something going that results in lots of seed accumulating on the ground, clean it up pronto and keep it tidy, get a different feeder, or better yet, just stop. Niger rots and grows mold fast, especially around here! Otherwise, the birds get into it, get sick, spread it rapidly to others, and I suspect we are already on the cusp of a big and widespread Pine Siskin salmonellosis outbreak guessing from the sudden rash of "lethargic" Pine Siskin reports in recent days from all around the area. If you've got "lethargic" siskins at your feeder now, they're likely already infected. Once infected, they contaminate the feeder, the seed currently in there, and quickly spread the disease to others. I quit niger feeding permanently last century exactly because of this.
>
> As is, I've got one Pine Siskin myself, first showed up on the sunflower feeder house tray Sunday afternoon appearing fine and healthy but I instantly suspected otherwise. Only one so far, all the others remain up in the trees where they belong. Now, two days, 48 hours later, and by this evening this one bird looked as expected, weak and in really bad shape. I nearly caught it by hand at which point had I been successful, would have mercifully squeezed it out of it's misery. It's doomed anyway and as long as it lingers, the danger of spreading disease to other healthy feeder birds (juncos, chickadees, nuthatches mostly, and some others including Varied Thrushes, but no other siskins) rises. Even weather protected sock feeders or other types of hanging thistle feeders aren't immune, just the overall general dampness around here renders the seed damp and much too soon moldy. Pine Siskins clinging to those all day long day after day contaminate the sock itself with feces and salmonellas laden bacteria.
>
> This typical winter-dry-sun-god forsaken place, the Pacific Northwest in general totally sucks with respect to niger. Fortunately, not much else sucks around here, just pretty much that. So, I'm an advocate of passing on the niger and niger feeders all together and tend to stick with what works best to keep your yard and feeder birds healthy, happy, and pleasant enough to have around and watch without overdoing it, and even that if involving seed of any kind, in moderation meaning putting out no more than your flock of birds are likely to eat in any given day. As someone mentioned a few days ago, Pine Siskins aren't in want of food around here as there is way more than enough occurring naturally in the form of an inexhaustible abundance of catkin laden alders not to mention all the conifers found everywhere. Once they descend to the feeders for 'easy' picking but never move, then there is something wrong.
>
> P.S. Katie, I didn't read your original message quite perfectly enough at first glance and just leaped to the assumption with mention of "thistle feeder" you were using a device specifically designed for those tiny little niger (thistle) seeds. After posting my reply on 'tweeters' but a subsequent re-read, it sounded like you have one of those mesh feeders for sunflower seeds and similar. Since spillage and seed accumulations on the ground is significant, my same advice applies, clean if up if the birds can't consume it fast enough. It will get wet and moldy and the salmonellosis will infect those birds as well. In addition to Pine Siskins, House Finches often are especially susceptible to salmonellosis as well.
>
> Richard Rowlett
> Bellevue (Eastgate), WA
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-----
Dennis Paulson
1724 NE 98 St.
Seattle, WA 98115
206-528-1382
dennispaulson at comcast.net



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