Subject: [Tweeters] junco variant?
Date: Sun Nov 22 16:09:26 PST 2020
From: Marv Breece - marvbreece at q.com

About Dark-eyed Junco. First, about language. Cassiar = Canadian Rocky Mountains (Sibley) = Cismontanus. All 3 terms refer to the same bird.

For purposes of communication, I prefer to use the term Cassiar.

Cassiar Junco is an intergrade between Oregon and Slate-colored Junco. Cassiar is not a hybrid of 2 species. It is an intergrade of 2 subspecies. Sibley uses the term Canadian Rocky Mountain. This is the same thing as Cassiar.

James Rising, in his sparrow books, uses the term Cismontanus. Again, same as Cassiar. He refers to the lower edge of the bib and uses the word concave (unhappy face) for both Slate-colored & Cassiar. He uses the word convex (smiley face) for Oregon Junco. Again, this is in reference to the lower edge of the bib. Sibley illustrates the Cassiar Junco (Canadian Rocky Mountain) with a convex (smiley face) edge to the bib. This is contrary to Rising.

Gosh I hope I got this right.

If you are confused, join the club.

I have never identified a female Cassiar Junco here in Washington. If anyone has actually done this in the field, please tell me how it is done. On the other hand, I have seen many male Cassiar Juncos (fall & winter only) in Washington state over the years. They are not rare here. I have identified the male Cassiar Junco by having a gray body like a male Slate-colored Junco and a very black head like an Oregon Junco. There is much variation. Rising states that ID cannot always be made.

I hope this helps.



Marv Breece
Tukwila, WA
marvbreece at q.com












From: "J Christian Kessler" <1northraven at gmail.com>
To: mgfrrstr at comcast.net
Cc: "Tweeters" <tweeters at u.washington.edu>
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2020 1:47:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Tweeters] junco variant?

I'm perplexed by the statement about a convex bib -- I assume as opposed to a concave bib. I lived in Virginia for 60 years, & all our Juncos were Slate-colored. I don't recall a distinct bib, just a generally grey body except for the white ventral side(yes, there's subtle shading in the grey areas, but hardly a distinct bib). and the line of white was concave to the belly. Oregon Juncos, on the other hand, have a distinct bib, which is convex to the belly (ergo, concave to the head). perhaps someone could clarify, maybe with a picture?

Chris Kessler

On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 12:49 PM Mary Forrester < [ mailto:mgfrrstr at comcast.net | mgfrrstr at comcast.net ] > wrote:



Today I saw a junco at my feeder in Mountlake Terrace. It looked like a slate colored, except that the bib was convex. Maybe a Cassiar's?
Mary Forrester
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